Tyres

Gary there is no intention to change the tyre list for the NGB karts especially to open tyres. Stick with the SL6's.

A question to the ruling, what is wrong with MG Red or MOJO D2?
If HG3 is no longer available, why not replace that option for something equivalent?

Well that's my point, there is no reason to have 4 tyres to choose from in the rules when only 2 are available, time to get them updated.......to what, I don't know as I don't drive a 125Max. Sometimes sticky on low HP equals slower lap times ;)

Dalton and I both ran with SL6 last weekend and we both found them great for tyre wear and performance for a SL grade tyre. We both beat everyone else who were either on SL6 or MG Yellow.
This weekend I'm running Phillip Island with the same used SL6 tyres.

In Stock Honda I found around Wakefield Park;
MG yellow as stickiest and would last 2-3 meetings max.
Hoosier R60A about 0.5 sec slower than MG Yellow, will last 5-6 meetings, plenty of heat cycles, still worked after 6 months old.
New AKA Dunlop SL6 about 0.5 sec slower than MG Yellow, looks like will last 5-6 meetings and about the same performance as Hoosier R60A, just depends on the character/feel from the tyre your seeking.

The Dunlop SL6 seem to rubber up pretty good at Wakefield and would definitely be my choice of tyre outside of super sticky. Great value for money, great performance, great longevity. I've always used SL6 on my 125GB 'open' karts when I had to do long distance races or hot track races (USA). I await to see how many heat cycles from meeting to meeting the SL6 will work well for, data from AKA testing was pretty good.

These SL6 tyres did 198 sprint kart laps for AKA testing/tender at Boliver.
[img]http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-f.ak/hphotos-ak-ash4/268306_523105871042296_1843479677_n.jpg[/img]
[img]http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-f.ak/hphotos-ak-prn1/12568_523108077708742_94576884_n.jpg[/img]

Where did you get a photo of my tyres?

No wait.........the canvass isn't showing.

;D

Ashley shows how much those people know about tyres, if they think that the SL6 is sh*t. They did alright at last years NGB Nationals. Anyway they probably haven't tried the new SL6's. Sam if the importer of these other tyres want them added to the list and can prove that they are a proper SL tyre, get them to put in a submission to the NSA. Its not our job to chase them and help them make money. I support the Tyre Importer that supports the sport, my grandson runs SL6's on his Max. The NGB Class is supposed to be a control class, so why not make it a control tyre for the class.

O, Please not a control tyre for NGB.

Can someone explain the reasoning why NGB cant have an open choice of tyres.

[quote author=Nat22 link=topic=1814.msg21163#msg21163 date=1359973657]
Its not our job to chase them and help them make money.
[/quote]
Who put the 4x different tyres in the 125Max rules to begin with and the 3 or 4 tyres for previous 100NGB? Not the importers, it was the Superkart committee.
If I remember well, the Mojo tyre was the spec tyre in Rotax Max Sprint and it was put there so we could get people from sprint into Superkart without having to buy a set of different tyres to try it out. I don't know how the other 3 were determined however I personally believe this is a job for the NSA to take up on their own stride and put it to the clubs.

Personally, it won't affect me so I'm not going into any battle here. I'm choosing to use the SL6 in Stock Honda and encourage others to do so for the benefits it brings to the class and drivers, plus understand how it affects results/performance on individuals if most people are on the same tyre.

I don't have any personal business in 125Max, just offering my past experiences as I used to race in 100NGB and in a similar situation.....and yes in 100NGB after the Kobe earthquake and there we no Dunlops available, people had to purchase the hire kart Bridgestone YDS tyre in the rule which lasts a whole season no worries, while those who had buffer stock of the Dunlop SL4 had distinct advantage at the Nationals.

All I'm saying is, people need to man up and own the issue to fix it one way or the other. Leaving HG3 and Mojo there is just silly and does nothing but makes the rules look stupid.

Sam if a Club want to put a submission to the NSA on tyres for the NGB class so be it. Gary the NGB class is a controlled class and that is why we don't have open tyres. If you want to go slower in the NGB class run open tyres, the class was designed to run on SL tyres and sticker tyres tend to slow the NGB karts down.

1x full race winning meeting old on new AKA Dunlop SL6.
Haven't even peeled rubber onto the edges yet.
Nothing wrong with this, ready to be used for the Island this weekend and for the meeting after and the meeting after that.....at least!
Not quite using the full width of the tyre, might do less talk and more study/setup next time ;)

[IMG]http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/samzavaglia/Hosting/IMG_20130206_160732.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/samzavaglia/Hosting/IMG_20130206_160508.jpg[/img]

What tyre pressures were you running Dalton?

Where is the 'like' button for some of these posts ;D

[quote author=.:DLR96:. link=topic=1814.msg21215#msg21215 date=1360194466]
You know the answer to that Sammy :D :D
[/quote]
Yes you little smart arse, your answer you gave me was "enough".......but who won the race meeting mate?
I won't be sharing any secret squirrel setup with you anymore. :D

Thanks for not sharing your tyres pressures with me cause it seems I worked it out for myself, better than what you had in Race 2, 3 and 4. ;)

I'll help you in 250 single, only if you and your dad "shut up and listen to me" :D
As for your Stock Honda chassis setup......my response for you is "take a hike" ;D

Maybe to PIL, not me, I got my own theory that seems to be working well. It also worked well for Jase Mate who beat you at Wakefield Pk on his Stock Honda debut. :D
I only wanted to know what your tyre pressures were had after Qualy.......that's all.
Now for March, you gonna need to 'shut up and listen to me' :D ohhhhhh I love it. ;D

[quote author=Rolf Greve link=topic=2031.msg22101#msg22101 date=1363934940]

And it's TYRE not tire...................moron.
[/quote]

;D ;D ;D ;D

Next you'll be saying they have to be black and round.

F1-control tyre.
WRC-control tyre.
NASCAR-control tyre.
V8 Supercar(all levels)-control tyre
Porche Carrera cup-control tyre.
Saloon car-control tyre.
AKA sprint karts(all classes)-control tyre.

Superkarts-run what ya brung and bitch like hell.

Maybe.......

.....but do they have the SKA ?? ?? ;) ;)

[quote author=The Ex Cook link=topic=2031.msg22104#msg22104 date=1363936954]
Next you'll be saying they have to be black and round.
[/quote]

You forgot the bit about 6"

Don't forget they cant be grey either.

Looks like TYRES are the hot topic.
How many sets can I run?, what size?

Time to get serious girls, set a tyre type (Brand) like eveyone else in the WORLD.

2015 as the compliance date, God knows the arguments will last at least that long.

ALL CLASSES.

Pretzel Ron?

And would you like Ice with your Scotch?

[i]This could be bigger than[/i] "Whats the Goss"

[i]Sorry Cookie.[/i]

[quote author=Rolf Greve link=topic=2031.msg22110#msg22110 date=1363948302]

Pretzel Ron?

And would you like Ice with your Scotch?
[/quote]

Yes to both thanks Rolf.

the way I see tire testing is.the only way to test is to give them to the fastest guys. You can give good tires to some guys that will last two meeting at there speed, then give it to a fast guy that will get one race out of them. We have done a lot of testing for Hoosier tires. And yes they stick for a couple of laps, then the next ones don't wear out. At Laguna last year they gave us the only set of wets they have (Norris say them I think) but shit it don't rain here much. Karl Wilson will tell you we were testing a new compound for Hoosier that weekend they were fast but all karl had to was watch JR just melt them things away...But karl if you read this be truthful they were hooked up for a couple of laps. Hoosier took the tires from the track and called and said they put to much rubber on the tire so now we new ones to test again. Me and JR are not in this game to win trophy's we are hear to try and the kart period I.E body work tires The FIA and others are just not about changes. Our kart over hear is banned by most groups is it fast yes only because of joe pessie the slowest guy in a twin thinks we are cheating when we can go around Topeka 11sec a lap faster then a dea we must be cheating. So to end this rant you have to let people like me and JR push the limits if no body does we are back in the 70s ,,One last thing in all the races we turn up in hear in the states we don't want a trophy we just want to test....we drove 9 hours to Topeka last year and they said my rear bumper was illegal So that's 18 hours hotels and fuel and you wonder why I got kicked of e karting site All because of jonny im a twat west...well you guys have and be nice to each other

So our club met last night and discussed controls for tyres for the Inters.

The thought was a maximum of twelve tyres (dry) per meeting.

The other thought is to dispense with the CIK requirement, thus requiring only a local tick from CAMS for use.

Our NSA submissions are being prepared.

Popcorn?

What about putting up the weights while you are at it for some of us more solid type blokes.

[quote]What about putting up the weights[/quote]

So put it up.
:D

[quote author=Bretttz link=topic=2031.msg22344#msg22344 date=1365646496]
What about putting up the weights while you are at it for some of us more solid type blokes.
[/quote]
Again...........
Be honest with yourself, you want to run at tracks like Phillip Island and Eastern Creek, what do you think 10Kgs on top is going to do on tracks like that?......sweet FA. If you were racing on a track around your clothes line, maybe a difference can be gained.

The people up front don't try and change the rules, they try and work their mousetrap to the best they can within their rules.

F**k, I'm over all the changes to rules every time it doesn't suit individual(s).

When it was 210kgs all we heard was that it's not aligned to CIK weights being 215kgs....now what?
Let's make it 250kgs so the loads from the fast mousetraps can start making issues with tyres.

If weight is such an issue, how about the sport invest in their own scales, I can tell you the Eastern Creek scales a couple weeks ago was reading at least 7kg heavy for the Superkarts weight.
The fat bastards will be closer to weight and the light guys will need to bolt more.....and guess what, the rule didn't change.

Sam you need to relax a bit mate.

[quote author=Bretttz link=topic=2031.msg22347#msg22347 date=1365649183]
Sam you need to relax a bit mate.
[/quote]

You keep going on about it every time, can I get the basketball hoop lowered or the Spring Carnival Horse racing weights lifted by 30kg so every fat and short bastard can play these sports to the highest Australian levels?

Sam thats bullshit. Please direct me to where I keep going on about it. My comment was in gest so pull your head in a bit.

[quote author=teddale link=topic=2031.msg22128#msg22128 date=1364102351]
the way I see tire testing is.the only way to test is to give them to the fastest guys. You can give good tires to some guys that will last two meeting at there speed, then give it to a fast guy that will get one race out of them. We have done a lot of testing for Hoosier tires. And yes they stick for a couple of laps, then the next ones don't wear out. At Laguna last year they gave us the only set of wets they have (Norris say them I think) but shit it don't rain here much. Karl Wilson will tell you we were testing a new compound for Hoosier that weekend they were fast but all karl had to was watch JR just melt them things away...But karl if you read this be truthful they were hooked up for a couple of laps. Hoosier took the tires from the track and called and said they put to much rubber on the tire so now we new ones to test again. Me and JR are not in this game to win trophy's we are hear to try and the kart period I.E body work tires The FIA and others are just not about changes. Our kart over hear is banned by most groups is it fast yes only because of joe pessie the slowest guy in a twin thinks we are cheating when we can go around Topeka 11sec a lap faster then a dea we must be cheating. So to end this rant you have to let people like me and JR push the limits if no body does we are back in the 70s ,,One last thing in all the races we turn up in hear in the states we don't want a trophy we just want to test....we drove 9 hours to Topeka last year and they said my rear bumper was illegal So that's 18 hours hotels and fuel and you wonder why I got kicked of e karting site All because of jonny im a twat west...well you guys have and be nice to each other
[/quote]


Ted, that was one LONG sentence with out a break.......sorry about shouting....

That was Sam and Brett's turn, who's next...?
Here we go boys......it's ON.

Brett,
You and Dean have always talked/complained/mentioned about the weights for the twins that I recall, be it in conversation or whatever. I just saying, while you carry this in your head, it won't make you quicker or closer to the front. Warren did 1:28 lap record when the weights were 220kgs at Eastern Creek, weight can be your friend......we have data around Mallala that between Stocky, McIlveen and an unnamed driver who weighed over 100kgs all with the same equipment, the +100kg driver consistantly had the fastest corner speeds......I'm going back 10 years, ask Stocky for the details if you think I'm having a jerk.

At 2002 Nationals, I weighed 225kgs at Phillip Island, Siebert was on the money in weight with no issues and no problems, I still got pole and 4 out of 4, my laps times were good comparable to today. I used to be a massive wombat you know, I used to have shit equipment, I used to be unfit and I never stop playing with engine and chassis setup. I think I'm fairly qualified to comment without bias on the topic that weight is not going to change shit to the outcome in a 250 twin.

BTW......what do you think Gavin Bennett weighs? How many times has he won the European Championship?

Sam
I agree with you regarding the weights but disagree that I keep going on about it. I have a dig every now and again but have no mid-conceptions that an additional 5 kgs to the front guys will slow them down.
Brett

Sorry if I come across strong to you Brett, it's just me.

Since I've raced twins, the weights have been 210kg, 220kg, 210kgs and 215kgs.....maybe even another 215kgs in there somewhere.......I just get sick of the changes that are always aimed at getting the guys up the back closer to the front. Only once was the argument that the weights should align to CIK and never did any of these changes have the leading guy(s) in consideration......it was always someone's beef with support from their mates.

Not to mention the stupid surveys at the weigh bridge that showed nobody was under weight......ohhh derrr that would be cheating if they were under....I and most others have a min of +5kgs to stay safe on those varying stupid car scales not designed for 200kgs but 2000kgs....is that ever factored?

Um,
This thread is about limiting the amount of 6 inch tyres, not weight.

12 tyres for the 250's. 3 front 3 rear per meeting. (dry)

Prezel anyone? or can we call it a done deal?

;)

Rolf,


Who said ANYTHING about 3 front sets and 3 rear sets.

All I agreed to was 12 tyres [FULL STOP]

I stand corrected Brendan.
We did NOT say front or rear.

:D

Run out of popcorn Rolf, anyway, who uses more than 3 sets of tyres? Changing the rules for nothing really.

Prezel Brendan?

;D

[quote]Changing the rules for nothing really.[/quote]

Meh?

Not up to me Sam. Doing as advised by the membership. I REALLY don't have an opinion.

No wait................yes I do. Limit it.

Akers 250 Nat was 228 kegs in qualifying and about 224kg in the final. Think he had a big crap!! I agree though with Sam, think the scales were out as we normally run close to 219kg.

Surly the scales have the fully sik NATA certified calibration every 12 months with temperature compensated sensors? Yeah, nah.

Are we weighing TYRES?

Yeah watch it chaps, you don't want to get sidetracked talking about weight otherwise another 10 years will pass were you can use more than 3 sets if you wish.

This will improve the sport and promote the class lets not forget :D ::)

With a control tyre your going to piss the stockman guys off if it's a dunlop though. How would all you Dunlop runners like it if the hossier was the control tyre?

O and make it compulsery to have a helper with you when driving a 250!

Why not add in that you must have a trailer while your at it but your only allowed to spend $1250 buying one so costs are kept down again for the good of the sport.

Lets ban that CIK unleaded, it's too exspensive and produces too many BTU's in such a narrow tune window.

Lets not forget the "3 club meetings" prior to being able to drive at the nationals.

The control does not include the brand or compound of the tyre just the quantity.

I fail to see the rational on the qty being 12 tyres over unlimited. So let's use 8 rears and 4 fronts.......or 8 fronts and 4 rears........is that really limiting anyone? Who uses more than that?......come on, name names, lets be open and honest here.
Just creates more work and confusion at the track for no reason.

How does this benefit the class/sport?
Again, what is the rational behind this?
Is this suppose to target some people?

Unless these get clearly answered, I would recommend memberships to reject it due to no value to our regulations.

Hi Rolf,
I agree with the submission.
12 tyres for a meeting is putting some control on the cost – and that has to be better than no cost control.
1 set for qualifying, two sets for racing is hard to argue that you need more as Sam has already said.

I also agree with dropping the CIK requirements – The Australian conditions are different to European conditions and now, both Dunlop and Hoosier have compounds that suit our conditions.
I do think we need at least two tyre suppliers for continuity of supply and competitive development so I not for a single brand control tyre - but if it is voted on and the majority want it, I not against it.

Regards
Allan

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2031.msg22389#msg22389 date=1365720873]
Hi Rolf,
I agree with the submission.
12 tyres for a meeting is putting some control on the cost – and that has to be better than no cost control.
1 set for qualifying, two sets for racing is hard to argue that you need more as Sam has already said.
[/quote]
I don't agree on the costs Alan, as some of those inline engines are so expensive to purchase and maintain, where does cost come into it if that's the case. $320 for a set of Hoosiers when comparing to +$20,000 engines with no spares and wear and tear does not weigh up to keeping cost down in regards to a set of tyres.

My point being if we are at unlimited tyres now and no one uses more than 12 tyres anyway, why put in a 12 tyre rule? It just creates extra work at the track.

If people are using more than 12 tyres of any combination once the race meeting starts.....who are they? Let's name them and find out the reasons.

If/when I decide work out which tyre for #9. 10, 11 and 12, I got to find someone to get it marked. eg, it was unfair that Dalton had to have his second set marked prior to end of qualy, why? if he wanted to use a different brand on Sunday? It's all too much work and hard to police.....unnecessarily for the twins.

Most people went to twin class due to being the pinnacle of Superkarting, if you want to reduce costs, run a Stock Honda, 125GB or 250 Nat......simple.

Hi Sam,
The 250 twin Superkart class has become very small – 18 entrants at the 1st round and 13 at the 2nd round last year (2012). This year, it looks the same.
When I talk to people, the cost is a major factor in people coming into this class or staying in it. Most of the owners of a 250 twin Superkart have limited budgets on which they can or want to spend on their hobby.
There will always be some people who have enough money to put on a fresh set of tyres for every heat and good luck to them – but most cannot.

In SA, the relative cheap cost of running a TZ250/RS250 has saved the twin class (although this is not the only reason – credit to Brett, Mike and Dean) and given people excellent valve for money.
If you don’t put some controls in place, then you will struggle to keep people in this class as they become disillusioned with increasing costs to be at the pointy end of the field.

Then where do you start? – With the things that you can control – the price of motors is out of the question but tyres are not. Everyone wins in this move; no one is disadvantaged, so why not.

I get what your saying Alan, if you can't afford it run a different class.
Costs of inter are for other reasons, tyre makes no difference to cost of winning in the inter class.