[b]1994 Adelaide Superkart GP results with 54x 250 Superkarts[/b]
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[b]And my first ever Superkart National Title race (100NGB), Superkart Results from 1994 - Eastern Creek Round 5 (yes correct round 5 of the Australian Championship - 1 in each state)[/b]
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Comments50
Re: Blast from the past
What is interesting is the largest class was the 80cc - a budget gearbox kart class followed by the another budget, class 100cc non gearbox –and looking further on the next is the National class – also a budget 250 class -now that has to tell you something about the bang for bucks people are willing to pay. ???
Now days, the biggest class is the Rotax Max and the formula is still the same – in fact all the other class have reduced considerable and yet the budget class has maintained it’s numbers and maybe grown a little.
Affordability and value for money is the key to growing Superkarting for the majority and there lies the dilemma for the rule makers. 8)
My hat is off to the Stock Honda class - a move in the right direction according to the formula, just needs some tender loving to keep it growing :)
Very sad to see the National class compared to what it used to be. :'( Interesting, there is a name missing from the list that was an infamous member of Superkarting back then - see if you can remember it ???
Sam, have you got a sheet for the PI round for that year - love to see that one.
Re: Blast from the past
Interesting, there is a name missing from the list that was an infamous member of Superkarting back then - see if you can remember it ???
[/quote]
Paul Hillman - I think Pelly put him away with a protest which then prompted a 2 year ban for fuel cheating to be introduced. While Hillman was never actually convicted of any fuel cheating as such, his fuel type/oil brand/ratio in his entry declaration did not match what was in his fuel tank......eg you say you run AVGAS but Unleaded is in your tank, or say you run ELF oil but your using Motul oil instead.......so becareful people's when making your fuel declaration. ;)
Also the Superkart National rounds were all club run, in 1994 the NSW President was Merv Rixon - a Life Member of NSW club and the best president in my view the NSW has ever had. Unfortunately Merv pasted away last week, a massive loss to Sydney motorsport as you could always find him at any Sydney race event lending a helping hand.
Re: Blast from the past
I was at the 1993 Adelaide F1 race when he and Jess Mc were investigated after posting 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other National time. No one was happy about the situation and he did end up taking a holiday for a season I think . Still justice must be seen to be done and it did cause some to think twice when mixing the fuel after that - but not all. :'(
Sad news about Merv.
Re: Blast from the past
I was at the 1993 Adelaide F1 race when he and Jess Mc were investigated after posting 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other National time. No one was happy about the situation and he did end up taking a holiday for a season I think .
[/quote]
I don't believe any fuel cocktail can help anyone go 2 sec faster than anyone else, cheating or not......does that mean an overall 3-4 sec advantage because driver is slower than others and needs to cheat?
Dalton and I have put Stock Honda lap times in where they don't belong, compared to open 125GB times and compared to other Stock Honda's on the track. We know we are 100% legal, no witchcraft or anything that could be considered unsportsmanlike in any place.....and to do it in a controlled class, looks even worst.....agreed. Therefore 2 secs faster than anyone else, think about how much extra HP you need to advance the same setup/driver to that advantage....lots and lots is the answer to that. Think about an open 125GB with 47-48HP and a Stock Honda with 36-37HP.......that's more than 25% increase in HP, same weight for the same lap times!!!!! We got so sick of being called cheats (behind our backs) and there was no way that we were going to leave Mallala without Peter Woodgate (who didn't want to check our 'sealed' motors knowing we are OK but I forced him too) so that it could be laid to rest for anyone who may have had doubts at Mallala or watching over Natsoft.
So the moral here is, education, don't ruin the sport on an assumption that someone must be cheating simply for the fact that they are 2sec a lap faster. Russell Jamison cheating?......No way....that's a new benchmark that a racer needs to understand and strive for. ;)
Re: Blast from the past
Dalton and I have put Stock Honda lap times in where they don't belong[/quote]
I have them all on a spread sheet along with Steve Castles times as well. They are with me every round. THE BENCHMARKS!
And for the record, no one that I talk to thinks you and Dalton were up to anything fishy.
Lol, how much would I have to pay to get your AIM .drk file from any Phillip Island / Winton race last year! :D
Re: Blast from the past
And for the record, no one that I talk to thinks you and Dalton were up to anything fishy.
[/quote]
No one from within Stock Honda ranks Nathan, only people with no idea how to drive or setup a kart from other classes who get embarrassed when we show them up. ;) Some even post their videos on how useless they are that is available to general public with stupid comments about us because their major mega dollar full house kit 125GP stuff gets passed down the straight and others like calling it "not so Stock Honda". Some snakes just talk sh*t amongst their mates on how Sam and then Dalton are cheating because of this and this. Anyway I've moved on from crap now.
Nath, you are welcome to download my data after every session at Winton next weekend, I'll be back in the pink/yellow Stock Honda for that one. It's fitted with a MyChron3 Extreme with Speed/RPM/Laps/Water/EGT/Throttle position and Gear Position, I'll even supply the download cable, just bring your laptop and also share with whoever you like. I'll be running either well used MG Yellows from Mallala last year or brand new Dunlop SL6's, need to see what tyres are available in my garage for next weekend.
See you then mate.
Re: Blast from the past
You might as will pack a set of new MG's too. That's what we're all running down here these days...
Re: Blast from the past
Started prepping for next weekend, I've got a set of used SL6 or a set of new SL6......I guess the used set of SL6 will have to do.........now to ensure I'm fully prepped and setup to ensure I don't leave my guard down even further now that you having a grip advantage over me. This will be fun. ;)
Re: Blast from the past
What's the other Squirell(s) doing? Coming down in Honda(s) too?
Shouldn't be distacting from the thread. Awesome to see Peter Woodgate up top for that race! He does know what he's talking about when he's ripping me a new a$$hole for something stupid i've done :P
Re: Blast from the past
These are the Dunlop SL6 tyres I'll be running next weekend at Winton if it's dry, take a good look at this picture cause you won't be getting this close to the kart on the track either. :D
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Re: Blast from the past
Also the Superkart National rounds were all club run, in 1994 the NSW President was Merv Rixon - a Life Member of NSW club and the best president in my view the NSW has ever had. Unfortunately Merv pasted away last week, a massive loss to Sydney motorsport as you could always find him at any Sydney race event lending a helping hand.
[/quote]
Merve lived and breathed racing I never knew he was the pres of a kart club as well. Top bloke and only ever heard people speak fondly of him
Godspeed
Merve Rixon
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
No front wing compliance testing was done at this event, although crash testing did exist at the time. :D
It was run by the Tamworth Kart Club as I remember and the NSW Superkart Club was invited thanks to Brian Stockman.
It was held over 2 days and it was one of two street events the NSW club got invited too; the other was at Port Macquarie on the Central Coast.
On the Sunday at the Port Macquarie race, some of the competitors were a little worse for wear and had to be gathered up for the first race of the morning.
Brian Stockman was on hand to show how his 80cc Kart could drive on 2 wheels while at a 90 degree angle to the ground for a reasonable distance before trying to increase the angle to 180 degrees with success.
Around that time, Victorian Superkart Club was also invited to an event held in the streets of Bendigo.
I believe Les May did his version of the Fire Dance during one of the races and set the Hay bales alight in the process. :o
Maybe, someone will post some photos of the event. :)
There was a real sense of fun to these events and everyone commented on what great events they were. Unfortunately, they didn’t continue … :'(
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
It was my first race in the my new 1992 HASSE chassis and Ian Pollard had surprised me with some new bodywork in of all colours, PINK :o - which happen to be the colour of the HASSE chassis at the time.
I had worked the whole week till late to finish the kart for it’s first race at this event. Jeff Yeldren (Kart 37) drove me to Tamworth that night in his van because I would have fallen asleep at the wheel if not. I slept under the kart stand in between the heats on Saturday 8) and qualified about 8th I think.
After a good night sleep I got a great start in the final and lead the race for first 10 of the 15 laps until the piston ring land cracked and the motor started to misfire. I finished the race but was pretty much last. It was a big pity because there was a $500 first prize for the final. :'(
I have some good memories of that time and the 80cc racer were a great fun bunch of guys. :)
Re: Blast from the past
Yep, Safety & Insurance got in the way.
Remember seeing karts near the Melb Arts centre running around the park the year before the first Melb GP.
How good would it be to do that again?
Re: Blast from the past
good times can still be had in an 85cc Superkart in Queensland. Looks like we have 7 ready to go for this year but not enough drivers for the karts at this stage. That will change quickly however.
Re: Blast from the past
It is good to see that those 85cc karts are being used again.
It is interesting to note, when I ran my Stock Honda at Mallala I was able to get down to a 1:16.7 lap at the second meeting and that put me just above Tony Lappas's 80cc Lap record of 1:16.45. Dalton's Stock Honda lap record at Mallala is 1:15.5 so the 85cc motor should be able to compete with the Stock Honda boys on a good day. Given the cheap price of a second hand 85cc motor, I am glad that class has not disappeared and who knows, maybe some of the other states will pull the kart out of the sheds too. :)
You might even get Tony L and old man Jamo to pull their 80cc motor out of the shed and give it a go :o
Re: Blast from the past
Not trying to be a prick, just saying I think this is one of the area's that needs attention, promote what we have, we have an entry level gearbox that is called Stock Honda.
Jason.
Re: Blast from the past
We were asked if 80/85cc could run at the recent Nationals.
We said YES.
How many did we get?
More Karts than drivers? what does that REALLY say?
Sure bring em to a club day, but PLEASE like Jase said let's promote what we have.
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Re: Blast from the past
The only thing I would actively promote is getting bums in seats and if Ashley can fill those 7 seats in the 85cc Superkarts, good on him. :D
Whichever way you look at it, 7 new members to the QLD club would be well received I would have thought. :)
You can argue how to cook the fish after you catch them but get them in the boat first :)
I suspect that the price to get a new member into a 85cc kart will be less than half the price of a Stock Honda and this might be a big factor for a new member looking at starting Superkarting. :o
At the end of the day, if they are happy with their first taste of Superkarting and they have the budget to move up, they will find the class that suits them best. :)
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
Wouldn't it be more beneficial to see them have a hassle free run in something that is reliable and can compete in all other states in the country?
If you have one run it, thats great go and have fun but promoting something that doesn't have a category anymore is madness.
Re: Blast from the past
Sounds like you and Ashley need to discuss this within your club. :)
Anyone, got some photos of the Bendigo Street meeting?
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
I've found your pics and prior thread of the 82 race thoroughly entertaining.
Its great hearing about the history. Love to see more!!
Cheers
Wayne
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
Would love to see some of them; please post a few with a few of the tales of the day :)
Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the comments. :)
Yes, I getting old but I have some good memories to share. Maybe some others will appreciate seeing what can be done if you are positive about the sport.
Buy Pelly a drink and get him to tell you about his egg catching experience at the Paramatta Japanese Resturaunt which the NSW 80cc drivers went to as one of their social events.
If he says he doesn’t remember, tell him that Charlie Lambous and he competed to see how many eggs they could catch in their mouth as they were being flip off the table by the table chef, that should do it. :D
Sorry, I don't have a photo of that :)
I did have some Video tapes of the 1991/2 NSW Titles at Amaroo Park which both the Williams boys and a hoard of Victorians attended as 80cc drivers but unfortunately they got lost somewhere. Chrys Jamison was the man to beat at the Park with his sleek laydown and a motor that pulled a million RPM ;D We all hated him for being so fast :D In those days, he was known a 6 pack Jamison :o
An interesting fact is that most of the older drivers that are still in Superkarting did time in an 80cc kart at some point. And the highlight of that was the 1993 race at Phillip Island that saw 48x 80cc Superkarts on the grid.
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
Time stamp: 1992
Place: Oran Park GP Circuit (now that was a great track)
Event: NSW 2 hour Enduro
Kart: Ardill (short wheel base model and general piece of sh..)
Aero Package: Dino Nose and Bubble – Sidepods unknown but picked up cheap (free)
Options: Auxiliary Fuel Tank fitted and Seat cover
Motor: 1990 YZ80 with Cylinder reversed and “J” model Ignition (Carburetor faced forward and exhaust face to the rear)
Drivers: Peter Worrell and Allan Litten
Results: DNF after a seized motor just before the 3rd fuel stop (pretty good for those days)
Re: Blast from the past
and second its false economy to set a new comer up in something that's not in the rules, hard to sell and breaks every five minutes because its about 20 years old.
Wouldn't it be more beneficial to see them have a hassle free run in something that is reliable and can compete in all other states in the country?
If you have one run it, thats great go and have fun but promoting something that doesn't have a category anymore is madness.
[/quote]
Have to totally agree with you there Jase, as much as it irks me to agree with you mate ;D, but when I started the 80's were pretty much on their last legs but those that were still around would spend more time at the track in pieces being rebuilt than as a complete motor.
Re: Blast from the past
Scott Jamieson was a new member last year and ran second overall in the 85cc Championship. Unreliable? Well Stewart Bells Gladiator/ Yamaha gets a new set of MG Yellow tyres once a year, new top end once a year and a bottom end every three years. Lets not forget that Jamo could do 58 second laps around Lakeside in his before the class got squashed by CAMS. That's is the same time as you around Lakeside as your lap record. At the moment, it costs $375.00 to fully rebuild a YZ85 superkart engine including a new crank. Top end rebuild is costing them under $40.00.
Owen,
at the time, apparently CAMS wanted "Class Rationalisation" or less classes. The 85cc Gearbox Superkarts including 85cc Junior (shame we lost a Junior gearbox class) and the 100cc NGB which had all but died as everybody had changed to a Rotax Max. At the time, the class got out of hand and people were spending as much on a 85cc engine as a 125cc RS125 so most people just went to 125cc Gearbox. Numbers had fallen away a bit but it goes in waves at times.
Guys,
I will let you in on a secret I hear a few times a month when people are looking to buy a Superkart. Have a look at the 2 photos below, a 250 National and a Stock Honda. When the new punter comes along, they look at them both and the decision is made automatically. Buy a 250 National or similar (for instance the 2013 - 14 Australian Champion) then they look at the Stock Honda. Every single time they will go for something with full bodywork and the price is similar.
Now I spoke to Jason about promoting the Stock Honda Class up here a while ago and got nothing back. Now left the class. Stock Honda is a great class and many more people should be in it but because it looks like a sprintkart still, the new punter isn't interested. Personally Stock Honda is a fantastic class and there should be hundreds of them. However with the way the AU$ is against the US$, cant see too many new ones being built for a while.
I know what I am about to say will make this thread go feral but here goes. For the future, the Stock Honda brigade might consider allowing full bodywork as per what NSW is doing in AASA Rotax's events. You want to get them going? Make them look like something people want.
Ok, smash that to bits.
Re: Blast from the past
The YZ80 were unreliable in those days because we did not know enough about them. :( Not many people had dynos and put them on them to sort them out and hence we made many mistakes on the track with settings.
Some of us did have dynos but we didn’t get it right because of our lack of knowledge when we over tuned these motors trying to find the limit. :'(
When Chrys started running the Honda motor with a Det counter, he became very reliable and fast too. I don’t think you could argue today about the reliability of the 85cc Stock class as it is just as popular as the 125cc Stock Moto class in the USA.
Hi Ashley,
You are right about cost of the Stock Honda, the exchange rate is making it hard on the class. Still, there are 30 odd Stock Hondas sold and that means there is some work to do to get those guys to the track. Maybe, Jason could help with promoting this class in QLD ??? As you are running under AASA, why not take advantage of this and run both together?
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
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Re: Blast from the past
Maybe, Jason could help with promoting this class in QLD
[/quote]
I'm doing my bit, I've got a test run organised at Bryant Park, Yallourn next Sunday. Might have a look at taking on the Hyperracer laptime after the engine is run in if I can get a read on the setup for the track. All going well myself and others could possibly start the Stock Honda you tube campaign ;D ;D ;D
Does the opening 30 seconds of this video make your blood boil? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFeHKpa2xGQ&feature=youtu.be
If so then get out onto the track with your Kart and bring all your mates and cousins so they buy one
Re: Blast from the past
This has been achieved & now that a starter motor has been introduced in the rules, this paves the way for a wing to complete the package as before it was going to get in the way of pushing the things.
Having said that I am,as all should be, aware that the concept & idea behind this class was/is to make it affordable & fair racing, read similar equipment, with the deciding factor being the driver & set-up not the parts he/she can or can't afford. So although the timing isn't great due to adding about $1500 of nose-cone& starter to the package, another $300 odd dollars for a wing wouldn't really break the bank & if it does you probably won't attend many race meets. However I must stress that I think a control body work,(cone wing pods) plus, yes PLUS a control tyre should be enforced for the class, or a choice of two.
Now all the above is my personal opinion with total disregard for the politics of the sport as I just don't give a fu@k about that as I (try to) race for the enjoyment of it which can be seen in the fact that I travel to NSW to enjoy my time with mates even though I reside in QLD. Lastly Paul & I have always tried to make our karts available for new punters to look at & I have lent mine out a few times & I would just like to see some grown men work together for the good of Superkarting as a whole even if that means letting go of some older memories, good & bad. Peace, love & methanol brothers! :-*
Re: Blast from the past
In a Stock state they are reliable but to turn out the numbers you are talking about costs. Jammo has told me he was changing pistons every race in his at the end. So does it surprise me that a very talented driver could do that time in something so slippery and light with good hp? No it doesn't.
Alan as far as promoting the class goes yes Ash you did ask what we could do and I had nothing as far as promoting stock Honda is concerned. I won't race Lakeside any more as it's just to dangerous in my opinion and I simply don't have anyone to race. If you think I have the money and time to constantly go out and race nobody then think again. Also Ash you may recall I told you I have changed classes this year and it's my last year. So why does it fall on me? I did do a full season of racing in it's first season and beat most of the open 125gb kart's as well showing everyone the potential of the package.
Also where is the Stock Honda that's been sitting in your she'd for two seasons? God knows how many times I was told that was going to be racing.
Anyway whatever, if you guy's think putting full body work on a Stock Honda will help all power to you.
It's just hard to see these guys turning up and spending so much time trying to fix an old shit box 125 or 250 nat or even a 250 inter, you just scratch your head thinking who the hell told them buying that would be a good idea.
I simply don't have time to keep pointing out the obvious.
Re: Blast from the past
The other thing that has been lost in my view is taking our sport to the people. What I mean is the old way of promotion, displays in shopping centres the old skool way etc, has been lost. The general populus doesn't know what a Superkart is so if the people are not coming to us, we need to go to the people. Its that simple. Promotion is the key to success. Having websites and social media only gets you so far. We need as a sport to take our sport to the people.
It is amazing how many people remember Superkarts from the Gold Coast Indy when we do displays. If you have TV footage showing, they will stand there and watch it for hours. Superkarting is a great product and has some cost effective classes for the budget racer. The top end of our sport well and truly caters for any ego tripper. We just have to educate the punter. Take it to them is the way forward.
Re: Blast from the past
That kart would have been a handful. :)
I can only imagine that it was a lot of fun spinning those low grip tyres up though the turns. Probably impressed a lot of people with it’s black lines out of the corners. :D
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
In 22 years of Superkarting I can't name a person who's class choice was based on Superkart bodywork looks alone, if this is true they must be the people who want garage ornaments and don't actually want to go racing.
The closest and best racing I've ever had was with Dalton in Stock Honda class, now if we had "freedom of bodywork" rules, peoples perception would be our bodywork holds advantage, then the next week we would fit a different style, week after another style and people would just spend and spend and waste time following the leaders like sheep.
...........................
As for "Full Bodywork" / "looks awesome" rules in a controlled class, let history explain that from around 1994 in the 100NGB class. We had 58 karts in the class at race meetings and that nose to tail bodywork cleaned out and disgruntled so many competitors from our sport. I guess people were entering meetings because they were "real" racers back then, not show ponies.
Below are 3x pics from 100NGB class and this full bodywork rule lasted less than a year, now people want to go full circle again? The issue is not about how good it looks, they looked fantastic however the issue is much deeper, it did not involve nor is it understood by anybody on the current bandwagon. If you want to get real about it, how about dig a little into the issues of 1994/1995. Ask anybody who raced at National level in 100ccNGB in 1994/1995 season.
Personally, I think the Rotax Max class has more pressing issues today, like how the new evo engines will play a role with it's existing stakeholders.
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Re: Blast from the past
It was all very nice and innovative but did it belong in our entry level highly controlled class?
Re: Blast from the past
To be promoting anything that is not part of and compliant to the current STR's is flirting with potential harm to the sport. All very well to say that the class is cheap and great for club days under either controlling body, but what happens if it doesn't workout that way? What happens if they decide they want to run at the "Nationals" or head to Eastern Creek (SMSP) or Phillip Island for a clubby there?
Re: Blast from the past
Attached is Kerryn's weapon, you can see the enclosed bodywork and "that" undertray just poking out the back.
It still took one hell of a driver to win races, gotta give her credit considering all within the same year she went from p-plater to National Champion.
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
It still looks good today - Dale Harris and his mate did a good job back then. He differently left his signature on the sport. :)
Regards
Allan.
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
Things fall out of flavour, remember the Video store?
If anything make it easy, cheap, and enjoyable.
(and I think we're trying to do that)
Tough call but we've had lot's of people ask where they can "hire" a superkart.
People are time poor and don't want to commit to a year of racing and fiddling in the shed now.
Too busy pushing buttons on their "smart" phones.
Sadly we got rid of the 100's and their huge fields, should we have thought about that more then before we hopped on board the Rotax train??????
Does anyone REALLY believe a little extra kit on a Rotax will bring that back?
Re: Blast from the past
Re: Blast from the past
The reason it thrived was because it supported local kart shop sales, not backyard black magic.
Re: Blast from the past
Yes it is. But IS bodywork the answer? Like you I'd like to know what people think.
OR?
Is the answer promoting what we have and make it easy to get into?
Are we better off promoting a cross over licence and the [i]only[/i] thing you really need is a rainlight and bigger engine sprocket at [i]most[/i] circuits?
Just my thought.
Re: Blast from the past
I havent seen some of those photos for years. As Ian says that was 20 years ago. 100cc NGB had massive fields with full bodywork. Now we have 125cc NGB with limited bodywork and the numbers are falling away. Is there a lesson to be learnt here?
[/quote]
If I'm not mistaken out of a field of about 20 or so NGB max karts in Qld none of them even run a nose cone accept the young fella. The one time I saw a guy run one was from NSW and he was made to get a trophy for his own class that was called NGB with a nose cone or something like that.
So what I am saying is that it doesn't seem to have affected numbers here, and we probably have the strongest numbers in the country.
Re: Blast from the past
Exactly Jase, your State has the most who "could" run both Sprint and Supers "easily"
I know that people say there is no advantage.
But what is the "perceived" advantage?
Re: Blast from the past
But that said, in the 1970's we had fields of 40 x125 GB's in at least 3 states, and in the late 80's there were fields of 30 x 250 Inters again in at least 3 states. There has been no change to any of their rules in 40 years, so what caused both the up and down in numbers ??
Sadly it is the way people live their lives today that means racing of any kind is no longer top of a small boys wish list. You can blame the sanitised top level drivers if you like, I mean who did not want to grow up to be James Hunt, Ayrton Senna, Mario Andretti or Gilles Villeneuve , as compared to today's leading lights of non-smoking, non-drinking gym junkie fit types who have even gone so far as to have one partner for 7 to 10 years.
Being a racing driver has lost its allure, just look at the richest and most famous men on the planet today and you feel like you want to rip your shirt off and buy a tattoo parlour or get an IT degree. Geez I cleaned that up quick smart !!!