Will you let me run this so I can show you guys how awesome the quality and completeness of the kit is? I promise not to use it as an advantage such as starting the kart if recovering from an on track stall situation as I have no dramas restarting myself without the push button. I just want to share this awesomeness with you guys and test it out throughout the race day.
Where do you get April 2 from? It's [size=12pt]Saturday April 12th[/size], always has been. I can get you a starter PIL, should I be looking at a bulk buy, anyone interested let me know but don't let me know on this Sandown topic please......this should be left for Sandown matters only ;-)
Good luck guys and enjoy the rare treat of getting some laps around Sandown. I've been fortunate to get around there on 2 wheels many years ago - the back straight is a cracker!!
Sam the only problem I can see with you running the starter at this meeting is that there will be CAMS appointed stewards at this meeting not Club stewards. So if anyone wants to be nasty you don't have a leg to stand on, and don't believe anything about a gentlemens agreement if you know what I mean.
If there's trouble it certainly won't be from within the class. Everybody I've spoken to is enthusiastic about seeing this system on a kart, which to me says the trouble would be started by somebody with no business doing so, or maybe nobody at all. ;)
I'm coming down with the starter as it's the only way of testing it before getting the wording perfect for the regulations and letting my fellow competitors see it in action before ordering one. I didn't have that luxury before shelling out the cash. If anyone does want to be a bitch at Sandown that's fine, just disqualify me every heat, I don't care. I'm racing there for the enjoyment, my fellow competitors and the advancement of our sport, If I was racing just for a $10 trophy, I would have never got into this sport over 20 years ago.
So, Beg, Borrow, or steal a kart, NGB or Stock Honda And get out at SANDOWN. We have a very large grid capacity so no one should miss out. [i]and remember to re pack your muffler[/i].
Good on ya Sam. Great to see such a cool product tested and invested in by you for the rest of us again. Nobody will have a problem unless they have nothing better to do with themselves other than be a grade A cock. have fun boys and let us know how it goes Sammy :-)
Nathan, Jason and the Duck, you all take a very simple attitude to this. This is a CAMS race meeting (possibly) and it will have a CAMS scrutineer, so if the scrutineer picks up that it doesn't meet the regulations, then Sam can be charged with knowingly presenting an illegal kart at scrutineering. By putting it on a public forum for everyone to see anyone can make the scrutineer aware of the situation. So anyone can be an A grade cock as Jason puts it and not even be at the race meeting, so don't shoot the messenger and remember Sam does have a lot of people that don't like him out there.
Graeme, I wasn't having a crack at you, you are right in every respect. All I was saying is that there would have to be something very wrong with the attitudes of anyone that had a problem with this. Jesus why is common sense so hard in this sport.
I am supposed to go to a good mates wedding.....but, do you think it's rude not to go..? Will I get another shot at Sandown..? Cause the way life is, I'll get to go to my mates next wedding when this one fails. Thoughts..? If I do go, and for the record, I'll have an electric KERS..oops I mean starter.
[quote author=PIL007 link=topic=2321.msg25687#msg25687 date=1395624598] I am supposed to go to a good mates wedding.....but, do you think it's rude not to go..? Will I get another shot at Sandown..? [/quote] Answer is; No and No
Good for the excuse book anyway PIL, might use that excuse for myself in future. I do know someone who handed his wife the AKA race calender and told her to pick any date she likes in planning their own wedding, provided it doesn't clash with his racing.
[quote author=PIL007 link=topic=2321.msg25687#msg25687 date=1395624598] I'll have an electric KERS..oops I mean starter. [/quote] This is one of the reasons why I ordered one. Unless the Hegar starter can spin the crank faster than engine in racing conditions, (lets just say anything faster than 4000RPM), then it is impossible for the starter act in any benefit of crank drive rotation assistance or electric drive assistance.
There is a tiny sprocket at starter end and a bigger sprocket at the driven end.....so it's already a massive reduction in crank speed vs starter speed to obtain a lighter load when starting the engine. It would be lucky to spin the crank around 1500RPM as it is, I'll check it out and report back anyway......what's why I do these tests at my expense for the class. ;)
[quote author=Sam Zavaglia link=topic=2321.msg25691#msg25691 date=1395635885] then it is impossible for the starter act in any benefit of crank drive rotation assistance or electric drive assistance [/quote]
And if anyone was dumb enough to press the button at say 11000rpm you would turn the starter motor into an over speed generator. The terminal voltage would rise by the ratio of starter motor rated rpm / voltage most likely frying anything that was connected to it i.e Mychron. Sam, does this kit have a reverse voltage protection diode fitted? If not, i'd be putting one in my kit!
Let's assume some things for an example Starter motor rated voltage = 12V Starter motor rated rpm = 4000 Starter motor to flywheel ratio = 2:1 Start button pressed at = 11000rpm
You would already have 22000 rpm at the starter motor output shaft so work that 22000 / (12 / 4000) = 66V
What is the maximum current draw Sam? 20A??? Assuming that I would use a 100V 30A rectifier diode reverse biased.
If we had one or more Stock Hondas not racing would the owners be prepared to make them available to anyone of our 125 open cousins to have a crack at Stock Honda?
I wouldn't even know how to get this ball rolling or it could just die in this thread.
And if your exhaust = 76dba, your engine will = 0 rpm! Good luck gentlemen. Watch out for the noise nazi's, a mate in a sportscar got pinged recently, even lifting off along the main straight. Back onto the trailer!
Just did the test. Spark plug out and grounded so the engine with little drag, the crank was spinning at 3200rpm with the starter. It is driven by a sprag bearing, so if the engine spins faster then the starter then there is no grip for the starter to turn the crank and nothing happens to damage any of the components. Simple but excellent design, should last almost forever.
I suggest maybe swapping the air cleaner for an sprint kart plastic airbox. This will reduce the dB/noise even though the Stock Honda's were tested as is at Phillip Island with positive results using the air cleaner.
[quote author=Rotax #27 link=topic=2321.msg25721#msg25721 date=1395808355] P.S. It is interesting that it was one of our flyers for the race meeting that was brought to their attention by someone at Cams that rang them and said "have you seen this". [/quote] Very interesting Rod......people just like to go and damage our sport I guess. I wonder where our sport would be today if people left their personal agenda's in the sh*thouse. These are sad people...very sad people indeed.
[quote author=Sam Zavaglia link=topic=2321.msg25722#msg25722 date=1395808852] [quote author=Rotax #27 link=topic=2321.msg25721#msg25721 date=1395808355] P.S. It is interesting that it was one of our flyers for the race meeting that was brought to their attention by someone at Cams that rang them and said "have you seen this". [/quote] Very interesting Rod......people just like to go and damage our sport I guess. I wonder where our sport would be today if people left their personal agenda's in the sh*thouse. These are sad people...very sad people indeed. [/quote]
It wasn't the person that we are all thinking it was is it?
Paul as you now have time on your hands why don't Sam and you write the rules for the SH class to include the push button start and push it through the NSA. It should only take 12 months to get through at the current rate of progress of the NSA and AMRC.
[quote author=Nat22 link=topic=2321.msg25755#msg25755 date=1395884987] Paul as you now have time on your hands why don't Sam and you write the rules for the SH class to include the push button start and push it through the NSA. It should only take 12 months to get through at the current rate of progress of the NSA and AMRC. [/quote] We are still busy, we got a wedding to go to. :D
Comments35
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Do we want to start taking bets on Dalton or Sam for the win? ::)
I got $10 for Dalton haha
Re: Sandown:
I just want to share this awesomeness with you guys and test it out throughout the race day.
[URL=http://s1238.photobucket.com/user/samzavaglia/media/20140321_105813.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/samzavaglia/20140321_105813.jpg[/img][/URL]
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Sam I want one
Re: Sandown:
I can get you a starter PIL, should I be looking at a bulk buy, anyone interested let me know but don't let me know on this Sandown topic please......this should be left for Sandown matters only ;-)
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
If there's trouble it certainly won't be from within the class. Everybody I've spoken to is enthusiastic about seeing this system on a kart, which to me says the trouble would be started by somebody with no business doing so, or maybe nobody at all. ;)
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
And get out at SANDOWN.
We have a very large grid capacity so no one should miss out.
[i]and remember to re pack your muffler[/i].
Re: Sandown:
have fun boys and let us know how it goes Sammy :-)
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
If I do go, and for the record, I'll have an electric KERS..oops I mean starter.
Re: Sandown:
I am supposed to go to a good mates wedding.....but, do you think it's rude not to go..? Will I get another shot at Sandown..?
[/quote]
Answer is;
No
and
No
Good for the excuse book anyway PIL, might use that excuse for myself in future.
I do know someone who handed his wife the AKA race calender and told her to pick any date she likes in planning their own wedding, provided it doesn't clash with his racing.
Re: Sandown:
I'll have an electric KERS..oops I mean starter.
[/quote]
This is one of the reasons why I ordered one.
Unless the Hegar starter can spin the crank faster than engine in racing conditions, (lets just say anything faster than 4000RPM), then it is impossible for the starter act in any benefit of crank drive rotation assistance or electric drive assistance.
There is a tiny sprocket at starter end and a bigger sprocket at the driven end.....so it's already a massive reduction in crank speed vs starter speed to obtain a lighter load when starting the engine. It would be lucky to spin the crank around 1500RPM as it is, I'll check it out and report back anyway......what's why I do these tests at my expense for the class. ;)
Re: Sandown:
then it is impossible for the starter act in any benefit of crank drive rotation assistance or electric drive assistance
[/quote]
And if anyone was dumb enough to press the button at say 11000rpm you would turn the starter motor into an over speed generator. The terminal voltage would rise by the ratio of starter motor rated rpm / voltage most likely frying anything that was connected to it i.e Mychron. Sam, does this kit have a reverse voltage protection diode fitted? If not, i'd be putting one in my kit!
Let's assume some things for an example
Starter motor rated voltage = 12V
Starter motor rated rpm = 4000
Starter motor to flywheel ratio = 2:1
Start button pressed at = 11000rpm
You would already have 22000 rpm at the starter motor output shaft so work that 22000 / (12 / 4000) = 66V
What is the maximum current draw Sam? 20A??? Assuming that I would use a 100V 30A rectifier diode reverse biased.
(Edit 6:12pm Changed current draw)
Re: Sandown:
I have a random idea that I would like to pitch.
If we had one or more Stock Hondas not racing would the owners be prepared to make them available to anyone of our 125 open cousins to have a crack at Stock Honda?
I wouldn't even know how to get this ball rolling or it could just die in this thread.
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
It is driven by a sprag bearing, so if the engine spins faster then the starter then there is no grip for the starter to turn the crank and nothing happens to damage any of the components. Simple but excellent design, should last almost forever.
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
May be I'll lock it.
But. I will be at Sandown.
I AM a qualified Audio person.
I HAVE a calibrated SPL meter.
I WILL stand up an argue 1 dB
Now no more on this or starters, diodes or other suff other than If you have a spare S/H
get the word out somewhere else here and get another bum in a seat.
Rant over.
;D
Re: Sandown:
Have a good meeting all.
Re: Sandown:
P.S. It is interesting that it was one of our flyers for the race meeting that was brought to their attention by someone at Cams that rang them and said "have you seen this".
[/quote]
Very interesting Rod......people just like to go and damage our sport I guess.
I wonder where our sport would be today if people left their personal agenda's in the sh*thouse. These are sad people...very sad people indeed.
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
[quote author=Rotax #27 link=topic=2321.msg25721#msg25721 date=1395808355]
P.S. It is interesting that it was one of our flyers for the race meeting that was brought to their attention by someone at Cams that rang them and said "have you seen this".
[/quote]
Very interesting Rod......people just like to go and damage our sport I guess.
I wonder where our sport would be today if people left their personal agenda's in the sh*thouse. These are sad people...very sad people indeed.
[/quote]
It wasn't the person that we are all thinking it was is it?
Re: Sandown:
Guess i'll go to that wedding after all.
Re: Sandown:
Re: Sandown:
Paul as you now have time on your hands why don't Sam and you write the rules for the SH class to include the push button start and push it through the NSA. It should only take 12 months to get through at the current rate of progress of the NSA and AMRC.
[/quote]
We are still busy, we got a wedding to go to. :D