Pete! Mate! You're on the right track! So far you've made solid points, well put, with a bit of supporting documentation, and most importantly, not a single ad hominem attack! Keep it up, and attach as much supporting documentation and/or evidence as you can for every accusation or claim that you make, and you have my blessing to say whatever you like.
Also, Ted, next week I'm teaching him to use links on the internet, that'll open a whole new can of worms...
Help us all, Neville and Peter in unison. Although this one is more entertaining than anything else yet. Best of all it is known facts backed up with something we can all see for ourselves. Get em Pete ;)
The beer is cold(ish), hammock is stretched nicely and the bar snacks are coming along well.
Just so we don't lose sight of things, when the delegation of Murray, Hanastchek and Denton by phone, following the resignation of Whiting and Murray from the President and Vice Presidents positions, met with with CAMS over delegation of Karting, they were clearly told that Governance was to be a high priority and needed to be finalized or delegation would be withdrawn. 4 months on before anyone touched base about it, yet a committee was formed back in 2003. the members of that committee must have moved on?  Who maintains the records of the AKA and continuity of what happens? Until we get proper Governance the organization will remain fragmented and dis-jointed, being run by inexperienced volunteers. A similar situation arose through the licenced clubs having board members elected who had no experience or expertise in any field running multi million dollars businesses.
Our organization should consider the following for all those who aspire to greater heights:
The Not-for-Profit Board
Share | Print Page
The 1 day Not-for-Profit Board course provides a detailed overview of the specific duties and responsibilities of directors and board members of a not-for-profit organisation. The course also covers governance and performance issues relating to the not-for-profit sector, as well as the legalities surrounding funding and sponsorship arrangements.
The Not-for-Profit Board course is presented in two parts:
Specific governance issues for directors and board members of not-for-profits.
Reviewing not-for-profit financial statements and how to assess organisational performance.
Who should attend?
Directors, council or committee members and senior executives of a not-for-profit organisation.
Thanks to Peter and Neville for the information.
However the evidence is not convincing of any untoward practice. The loss of the two senior people in the organisation is going to cause major problems to ensure the continuation of operations and decision making. It is important to get someone in the President position post haste; and someone with some experience. It appears a job description and capability criteria were generated with the installation of a recruiting group to vet applications; all quite standard. It is also not unusual in this situation that the candidate pool was not as strong or capable as expected given the short notice. You would also expect the acting head to be involved in the recruiting process. It is also not unusual to delay the final appointment and if the temporary leadership is working to have that person fill in until the natural process takes back over. It is also explainable in a small organisation that the leader works the press release; you would consider this person negligent if they did not.
I am not making a comment on being better off with more professional leadership. My comment is purely that from 6 years as GM for HR in a 6000 people organisation; that the actions taken seemed to be appropriate and not untoward. I would also give credit and thanks to the person prepared to take on the responsibility and make it happen.
I am also encouraged by mention of accountability and transparency that are imbedded in the correspondence; leadership appears to be listening. Whilst these are only baby steps and much more needs to be done; they are baby steps in the right direction.
There is change happening and whilst we need to monitor (and information like this is important; I am not encouraging you to stop!) we also need to support good intentions and movement in the right direction.
Regards. David
Hey Peter and Neville,
I am a newbie trying to keep up so please be gentle. Was the selection Committee the Legal firm? If so the way I read it they do not recommend anyone with the exception of Kissock for a position. They mention Ralph as the next best applicant but go on to say that they would not reccomend any of the applicants other than Kissock. Am I missing something ?
As for the rest of the committees decisions it would appear clearly a breach of protocol and a distinct lack of a moral compass.
cherrs
Alex
Personally having met Ralph and his son recently I would certainly vote 1.
Dave read deeper and factor in prior actions and you will see what Peter is saying. Mr Denton NEVER wanted the job, it was ALWAYS only until the next AGM never a permamenet position. The method of appointing a panel sounded positive at the start , even though Mr Kissok was the only recomendation for the VP and Mr R Dorn next qualified of the applicants common sense would have selected Mr Dorn as a person WANTING the job, and next best qualified even MORE so than the persone who now occupies the position a person who stated he didn't WANT the job beforehand. The reason Mr Dorn never got a look I believe was because they [ NKC and the exec] knew he would bring the ship back online and they would be powerless to secure their position on the governance board because he would have insisted on skilled members and they are NOT skilled enough, simple preservation of power. THATS's the untoward practice. NKC also NEVER asked their membership [ clubs] for instructions to ratify the nomination quite simply done, sufficient time was available, but again NOT done. WHY? a simple smoke screen, make an announcement that you will use independant panel to select replacements, sounds good, but then disregard the recommendations, sound a bit like many other things the AKA disregard, I am sure when Peter gets to the CIK file he will list that the properly formed CIK committee recommnded certain action/directions and they totally disregarded that report and went their own way costing the sport hundreds of thousand of dollars!!! its this pattern that forms such a bad image of the people in contol of the sport.
Â
The leader makes his own press release, hmmmm why do I have a problem with that, when the issue is about that said leader? we have a Publicity officer paid $85k to make announcements, why is he not engaged he isn't that busy is he?
Â
We need more than baby steps.
Â
They may NOT be financially corrupt but no doubt MORALLY so.
Paul, I understand what your saying and you can always provide positive and negative points on any decisions made; the perfect decision that satisfies all are few and far between. You also know from previous posts that I am a supporter of greater accountability and transparency in the AKA.I also agree that greater professionalism is required.
I don't know whether Denton wanted the job or not; but I have seen plenty of cases that when in this situation you have to twist peoples arms to make it happen in the short term; delay retirement, move to nasty location etc to fill the short term gap.
I am noting that the prime facia facts are weak for this case; if you look at it without the years of history.
Respectfully. David
David you have missed some vital points here. Firstly why did they not engage a HR company to recruit suitable candidates? Secondly If you note the content of the letter circulated you will see that 'One of us has interviewed what we considered to be the best candidate' What exactly does that mean? Mr Worsnop rang Mr Kissock and asked if he would like to be President? Is that protocol?
It goes onto say that Mr Kissock was the best candidate who addressed all the criteria, but after a telephone conversation he did not wish to apply for the President's Position. How can the role be offered to a candidate who 1/ didn't apply for that position, 2/ applications for the position had closed?
It then goes onto to say that perhaps the position should be offered to another person within its ranks? In essence they reject the applications received and make a recommendation that someone out of the blue be picked to fill the role, a person that has not submitted any written resume' as to their qualifications or background? So what the document is saying is to disregard all those who have tabled their credentials and lets just choose anyone we like?
To date there is no evidence to support a deliberate contravention of blocking any candidate, but as suggested there has been a clear breach of protocol.Â
Whether at the end of the day Mr Denton's qualification and experience outweigh that of the Mr Van Doorn's or vice versa, is irrelevant, the process by which it was reached was compromised. That fact should be recognized and rectified.
Neville, You make some good points. I have a suspicion that they probably don't even have a protocol; so to say there was a breach of protocol I think makes an assumption of what the protocol should be. If you have a copy of the protocol then paste it up. Having said that I have also seen situations where leadership is said "this process is not looking too flash, let's take a deep breath and go temporary while we work on a long term" fix.
The other thing I would be interested in is where the state delegates were in this process; I am assuming they are deeply involved or got involved as things unfolded.
Regards. David
The selection process will ensure the Association benefits by obtaining the most suitable applicants through the use of an independent panel to create a short list for the National Executive to make the final selections. The NKC will then be asked to ratify these selections.
David this is an extract of how the process was to take place. Short of any long term stipulation but none the less, a process.
The 'selection panel' did not in fact create a 'short list', they eliminated the candidates and made recommendations that Mr Denton remain in the position. How then did the 'selection panel' decide that Mr Denton was a more suitable candidate than the 4 applications received when he was only filling a temporary position?
You ask about the State Delegates who form the NKC. In NSW the information surrounding the process was not disseminated and therefore not debated by clubs in NSW. I cannot comment on what happened in other states. However this is the result of the vote taken by the NKC:
Recommendation by the Executive that Craig Denton continues as AKA acting president until the next Annual General meeting.
Moved VIC: Craig Denton to fill the position of AKA President.
Second: WA
Against: NSW,TAS
Carried
There is no record of which delegates voted for the motion or abstained. (Having said that it would appear that at least 3 of the following SA, Qld, Vic, NT or WA voted for the motion)
I am noting that the prime facia facts are weak for this case; if you look at it without the years of history'. This is why people are cynical, there is years of history, this is only the latest chapter which on the surface from someone entertaining a comment on the tail will not comprehend, or be able to sift through the rhetoric to establish the true facts.
Hi Pete, it have been a long time between posts for me , and from one old karter to a other who went to greener place because Karting was becoming crap, you are flogging a dead horse mate , i know what you are trying to do and i think that the karters need to know this stuff . But mate it will not change anything , when i left the sport it was all ready out of controll and by the sounds of it some 12 years later its still out of controll and when it crashes it will be big.Mate could you do me a old time fav by putting in a little less time into the whatever file and start a new one like how do we make this sport better, you and i have seen the Best and worst of Australian Karting , maybe its time to help it grow . As for this John person , mate when you have put in as much time at the track not only looking after your own drivers as well as other people on race days then you can talk to us, because from where i stand you are only a baby in the sport . So you should let the grownups talk about thing that matter.
Comments12
I can't stand the wait.
Attachments:
Selection_Panel_11.11.11.pdf, 137 KB
Pete! Mate! You're on the right track! So far you've made solid points, well put, with a bit of supporting documentation, and most importantly, not a single ad hominem attack! Keep it up, and attach as much supporting documentation and/or evidence as you can for every accusation or claim that you make, and you have my blessing to say whatever you like.
Also, Ted, next week I'm teaching him to use links on the internet, that'll open a whole new can of worms...
Help us all, Neville and Peter in unison. Although this one is more entertaining than anything else yet. Best of all it is known facts backed up with something we can all see for ourselves. Get em Pete ;)
The beer is cold(ish), hammock is stretched nicely and the bar snacks are coming along well.
Just so we don't lose sight of things, when the delegation of Murray, Hanastchek and Denton by phone, following the resignation of Whiting and Murray from the President and Vice Presidents positions, met with with CAMS over delegation of Karting, they were clearly told that Governance was to be a high priority and needed to be finalized or delegation would be withdrawn. 4 months on before anyone touched base about it, yet a committee was formed back in 2003. the members of that committee must have moved on?  Who maintains the records of the AKA and continuity of what happens? Until we get proper Governance the organization will remain fragmented and dis-jointed, being run by inexperienced volunteers. A similar situation arose through the licenced clubs having board members elected who had no experience or expertise in any field running multi million dollars businesses.
Our organization should consider the following for all those who aspire to greater heights:
The Not-for-Profit Board
Share | Print Page
The 1 day Not-for-Profit Board course provides a detailed overview of the specific duties and responsibilities of directors and board members of a not-for-profit organisation. The course also covers governance and performance issues relating to the not-for-profit sector, as well as the legalities surrounding funding and sponsorship arrangements.
The Not-for-Profit Board course is presented in two parts:
Specific governance issues for directors and board members of not-for-profits.
Reviewing not-for-profit financial statements and how to assess organisational performance.
Who should attend?
Directors, council or committee members and senior executives of a not-for-profit organisation.
Thanks to Peter and Neville for the information.
However the evidence is not convincing of any untoward practice. The loss of the two senior people in the organisation is going to cause major problems to ensure the continuation of operations and decision making. It is important to get someone in the President position post haste; and someone with some experience. It appears a job description and capability criteria were generated with the installation of a recruiting group to vet applications; all quite standard. It is also not unusual in this situation that the candidate pool was not as strong or capable as expected given the short notice. You would also expect the acting head to be involved in the recruiting process. It is also not unusual to delay the final appointment and if the temporary leadership is working to have that person fill in until the natural process takes back over. It is also explainable in a small organisation that the leader works the press release; you would consider this person negligent if they did not.
I am not making a comment on being better off with more professional leadership. My comment is purely that from 6 years as GM for HR in a 6000 people organisation; that the actions taken seemed to be appropriate and not untoward. I would also give credit and thanks to the person prepared to take on the responsibility and make it happen.
I am also encouraged by mention of accountability and transparency that are imbedded in the correspondence; leadership appears to be listening. Whilst these are only baby steps and much more needs to be done; they are baby steps in the right direction.
There is change happening and whilst we need to monitor (and information like this is important; I am not encouraging you to stop!) we also need to support good intentions and movement in the right direction.
Regards. David
Hey Peter and Neville,
I am a newbie trying to keep up so please be gentle. Was the selection Committee the Legal firm? If so the way I read it they do not recommend anyone with the exception of Kissock for a position. They mention Ralph as the next best applicant but go on to say that they would not reccomend any of the applicants other than Kissock. Am I missing something ?
As for the rest of the committees decisions it would appear clearly a breach of protocol and a distinct lack of a moral compass.
cherrs
Alex
Personally having met Ralph and his son recently I would certainly vote 1.
Dave read deeper and factor in prior actions and you will see what Peter is saying. Mr Denton NEVER wanted the job, it was ALWAYS only until the next AGM never a permamenet position. The method of appointing a panel sounded positive at the start , even though Mr Kissok was the only recomendation for the VP and Mr R Dorn next qualified of the applicants common sense would have selected Mr Dorn as a person WANTING the job, and next best qualified even MORE so than the persone who now occupies the position a person who stated he didn't WANT the job beforehand. The reason Mr Dorn never got a look I believe was because they [ NKC and the exec] knew he would bring the ship back online and they would be powerless to secure their position on the governance board because he would have insisted on skilled members and they are NOT skilled enough, simple preservation of power. THATS's the untoward practice. NKC also NEVER asked their membership [ clubs] for instructions to ratify the nomination quite simply done, sufficient time was available, but again NOT done. WHY? a simple smoke screen, make an announcement that you will use independant panel to select replacements, sounds good, but then disregard the recommendations, sound a bit like many other things the AKA disregard, I am sure when Peter gets to the CIK file he will list that the properly formed CIK committee recommnded certain action/directions and they totally disregarded that report and went their own way costing the sport hundreds of thousand of dollars!!! its this pattern that forms such a bad image of the people in contol of the sport.
Â
The leader makes his own press release, hmmmm why do I have a problem with that, when the issue is about that said leader? we have a Publicity officer paid $85k to make announcements, why is he not engaged he isn't that busy is he?
Â
We need more than baby steps.
Â
They may NOT be financially corrupt but no doubt MORALLY so.
Paul, I understand what your saying and you can always provide positive and negative points on any decisions made; the perfect decision that satisfies all are few and far between. You also know from previous posts that I am a supporter of greater accountability and transparency in the AKA.I also agree that greater professionalism is required.
I don't know whether Denton wanted the job or not; but I have seen plenty of cases that when in this situation you have to twist peoples arms to make it happen in the short term; delay retirement, move to nasty location etc to fill the short term gap.
I am noting that the prime facia facts are weak for this case; if you look at it without the years of history.
Respectfully. David
David you have missed some vital points here. Firstly why did they not engage a HR company to recruit suitable candidates? Secondly If you note the content of the letter circulated you will see that 'One of us has interviewed what we considered to be the best candidate' What exactly does that mean? Mr Worsnop rang Mr Kissock and asked if he would like to be President? Is that protocol?
It goes onto say that Mr Kissock was the best candidate who addressed all the criteria, but after a telephone conversation he did not wish to apply for the President's Position. How can the role be offered to a candidate who 1/ didn't apply for that position, 2/ applications for the position had closed?
It then goes onto to say that perhaps the position should be offered to another person within its ranks? In essence they reject the applications received and make a recommendation that someone out of the blue be picked to fill the role, a person that has not submitted any written resume' as to their qualifications or background? So what the document is saying is to disregard all those who have tabled their credentials and lets just choose anyone we like?
To date there is no evidence to support a deliberate contravention of blocking any candidate, but as suggested there has been a clear breach of protocol.Â
Whether at the end of the day Mr Denton's qualification and experience outweigh that of the Mr Van Doorn's or vice versa, is irrelevant, the process by which it was reached was compromised. That fact should be recognized and rectified.
Neville, You make some good points. I have a suspicion that they probably don't even have a protocol; so to say there was a breach of protocol I think makes an assumption of what the protocol should be. If you have a copy of the protocol then paste it up. Having said that I have also seen situations where leadership is said "this process is not looking too flash, let's take a deep breath and go temporary while we work on a long term" fix.
The other thing I would be interested in is where the state delegates were in this process; I am assuming they are deeply involved or got involved as things unfolded.
Regards. David
The selection process will ensure the Association benefits by obtaining the most suitable applicants through the use of an independent panel to create a short list for the National Executive to make the final selections. The NKC will then be asked to ratify these selections.
David this is an extract of how the process was to take place. Short of any long term stipulation but none the less, a process.
The 'selection panel' did not in fact create a 'short list', they eliminated the candidates and made recommendations that Mr Denton remain in the position. How then did the 'selection panel' decide that Mr Denton was a more suitable candidate than the 4 applications received when he was only filling a temporary position?
You ask about the State Delegates who form the NKC. In NSW the information surrounding the process was not disseminated and therefore not debated by clubs in NSW. I cannot comment on what happened in other states. However this is the result of the vote taken by the NKC:
Recommendation by the Executive that Craig Denton continues as AKA acting president until the next Annual General meeting.
Moved VIC: Craig Denton to fill the position of AKA President.
Second: WA
Against: NSW,TAS
Carried
There is no record of which delegates voted for the motion or abstained. (Having said that it would appear that at least 3 of the following SA, Qld, Vic, NT or WA voted for the motion)
I am noting that the prime facia facts are weak for this case; if you look at it without the years of history'. This is why people are cynical, there is years of history, this is only the latest chapter which on the surface from someone entertaining a comment on the tail will not comprehend, or be able to sift through the rhetoric to establish the true facts.
Hi Pete, it have been a long time between posts for me , and from one old karter to a other who went to greener place because Karting was becoming crap, you are flogging a dead horse mate , i know what you are trying to do and i think that the karters need to know this stuff . But mate it will not change anything , when i left the sport it was all ready out of controll and by the sounds of it some 12 years later its still out of controll and when it crashes it will be big.Mate could you do me a old time fav by putting in a little less time into the whatever file and start a new one like how do we make this sport better, you and i have seen the Best and worst of Australian Karting , maybe its time to help it grow . As for this John person , mate when you have put in as much time at the track not only looking after your own drivers as well as other people on race days then you can talk to us, because from where i stand you are only a baby in the sport . So you should let the grownups talk about thing that matter.