So we are told early this year that we cannot use Magnesium wheels next year... Fair enough so we go out now and buy new aliminuim wheels to suit...Now the rules come out that they must be a certain size (width)....and NO bolt on rims...So again we have to spend more money....I have two kids in Cadets and now I have to buy more rims for both, very piss%^d off...Also you buy a new FA, Tony Kart Kosmic etc and the rims they come with on the front you cannot use thanks AKA more expences AGAIN!!!!! not to mention other brands who provide the kart with Magnesium rims. You (AKA) have no consideration for the people in the class, you should take a poll (as you have our details on CMS ) with the people who race that class before making studpid decision to INCREASE the cost of karting AGAIN!!!!!. Also you can buy different offset in wheels not just width so we now have to spend more money finding the best rim again....
Well done AKA you have just increased the cost of this class again with no regard to the people in that class!!
Regard
Craig Matthews
Comments12
You do realise that these rules would have been voted on at national level by the state deligates and at state level by the club deligates.
Delegates have a habit of voting on things that they have had instructions on because they were not in the meeting agenda Item to begin with. This is the big issue with the managment of this sport, no one is holding these deligates to accountability, either their club deligates or their state deligate.
This means every club member needs to be active in their club.
For example, at the last VKA Deligates meeting this has happened again, Who else in Vic has taken this up with their club deligate???
If it is not on the agenda item the delegate should vote in the negative untill they[delagate] have had instructions from their club to do otherwise .This could b a reason why club members cant b bothered going to meetings because they see so much of this non agenda item stuff getting voted on and they are the ones getting screwed by it all. David Arnold said:
You do realise that these rules would have been voted on at national level by the state deligates and at state level by the club deligates.
Delegates have a habit of voting on things that they have had instructions on because they were not in the meeting agenda Item to begin with. This is the big issue with the managment of this sport, no one is holding these deligates to accountability, either their club deligates or their state deligate.
This means every club member needs to be active in their club.
For example, at the last VKA Deligates meeting this has happened again, Who else in Vic has taken this up with their club deligate???
Not so fast fellas.... Lets get this right ...
Item 15 was a proper Tech submission from the member State >> Tasmania, re Mag rims, this submission was withdrawn...(obviously with State approval !)
Item 26 was a proper Tech submission from the member State>>> West Australia re alloy rims ... this submission was also withdrawn (obviously with State approval..!!!)
Then in items for DISCUSSION for future direction ...
Item 18 Discussion appears in the minutes as a suggestion from a Manufacturer to have only alloy rims - and that some "pre meeting discussion" was had with another rim manufacturer to make rims with markings .!!!!!..then it moves on that Alloy rims & hubs - bearing type only fronts, become compulsory .... no member State has submitted it to agenda without withdrawel - no consultation with state councils or the clubs/members !!! and the delegates attending fail to direct this item back to their Councils / members... ?????????
The rule book appears with dimensions that are not listed in any proposal or approval ..???????
I just cannot fathom that the Chair of the meeting would allow a discussion item to become a law, when none of the members have been informed of such an issue, and when two members who did submit the suggestion through the proper protocols withdraw their agenda, the chair then allows a non member to submit and it gets up ..???? WTF...!!! ..why do we waste funds on Tech and other committee meetings when you can just bypass all of them ....!! See below ...
18. Future Direction Discussion:
Drew Price spoke on the Midgets and Rookies to only have one type of rims for use.
Discussion has been had with Ross Edwards in regards to one type of rim and some markings.
Moved: NT
That the technical Coordinator speaks to Ross Edwards in regards to supplying standard set of rims for these classes.
Lost
Moved: WA
Restrict to Aluminium rims and hubs only. Bearing front rims only
(Include drawing into rule).
Second: NSW
Carried
Effective 1st January 2012 – compulsory for all State Championships in 2012.
To be Compulsory for all competition in 2013.
The above same submission from WA was withdrawn (obviously with State approval) so it lapsed ...come back next year through the tech committee as is required ...so when does the protocol apply ??????????
You wonder why we are labelled hilbilly's !!!
.
on December 18, 2011 at 22:02
So we're do we stand on this issue now Ralph ? Just cop it as usual?
The new manual also refers to State Championships etc etc but the minutes are the official record of the meeting, so I can only assume that the minutes are correct, because they are approved correct at the following meeting and they have had a few since, and there was no corrections ...!!! and someone (as has been evident the last few years) has added their own spin to the rules .....you would have to think that without State sanction to the proposal of agenda, and without notice, and unless its put through the Committees, (the ones responsible for their own specific areas) the whole thing is not valid ... !!!
But that's just my opinion ...!!!
.I am sure there will be others who have their own slant on it , I just read whats written , and I certainly can't get anything on the agenda without submitting it to my club, and they to the state, and the state to the committees, and the committeees to the National , for distribution to all the States who then have a meeting to give the State direction to the representative, ( its a representative who attends and who has instruction from the State )...
That's how it is supposed to work .... !!!! :-)
...........................
Say no more!!!Ralph van Doorn said:
Not so fast fellas.... Lets get this right ...
Item 15 was a proper Tech submission from the member State >> Tasmania, re Mag rims, this submission was withdrawn...(obviously with State approval !)
Item 26 was a proper Tech submission from the member State>>> West Australia re alloy rims ... this submission was also withdrawn (obviously with State approval..!!!)
Then in items for DISCUSSION for future direction ...
Item 18 Discussion appears in the minutes as a suggestion from a Manufacturer to have only alloy rims - and that some "pre meeting discussion" was had with another rim manufacturer to make rims with markings .!!!!!..then it moves on that Alloy rims & hubs - bearing type only fronts, become compulsory .... no member State has submitted it to agenda without withdrawel - no consultation with state councils or the clubs/members !!! and the delegates attending fail to direct this item back to their Councils / members... ?????????
The rule book appears with dimensions that are not listed in any proposal or approval ..???????
I just cannot fathom that the Chair of the meeting would allow a discussion item to become a law, when none of the members have been informed of such an issue, and when two members who did submit the suggestion through the proper protocols withdraw their agenda, the chair then allows a non member to submit and it gets up ..???? WTF...!!! ..why do we waste funds on Tech and other committee meetings when you can just bypass all of them ....!! See below ...
18. Future Direction Discussion:
Drew Price spoke on the Midgets and Rookies to only have one type of rims for use.
Discussion has been had with Ross Edwards in regards to one type of rim and some markings.
Moved: NT
That the technical Coordinator speaks to Ross Edwards in regards to supplying standard set of rims for these classes.
Lost
Moved: WA
Restrict to Aluminium rims and hubs only. Bearing front rims only
(Include drawing into rule).
Second: NSW
Carried
Effective 1st January 2012 – compulsory for all State Championships in 2012.
To be Compulsory for all competition in 2013.
The above same submission from WA was withdrawn (obviously with State approval) so it lapsed ...come back next year through the tech committee as is required ...so when does the protocol apply ??????????
You wonder why we are labelled hilbilly's !!!
.
AGAIN, a controvercial rule implemented with a common theme, LACK OF ADHEARANCE TO PROPER PROCEDURES, this does not bode well for any sign of improoved professional administration of ths sport.
EVERYONE shoud be passing on their concerns about this not just the midget/cadet parents it concerns ALL karters.
Ths cancerous activity must stop
But the club vote for the committee and the committee selects the club Deligate, so it is up to the karter as club level to hold to account the club deligate, that also means to hold the club deligate to hold the state deligate to account also. You can go on about the AKA all you like but in reality, it is the deligates that decide to take things into their own hands without seeking instruction, and this is where the process turns to crap. Everytime the karter lets the deligate get away with this they are contributing to the issue.Harvie Ramsden said:
If it is not on the agenda item the delegate should vote in the negative untill they[delagate] have had instructions from their club to do otherwise .This could b a reason why club members cant b bothered going to meetings because they see so much of this non agenda item stuff getting voted on and they are the ones getting screwed by it all. David Arnold said:
You do realise that these rules would have been voted on at national level by the state deligates and at state level by the club deligates.
Delegates have a habit of voting on things that they have had instructions on because they were not in the meeting agenda Item to begin with. This is the big issue with the managment of this sport, no one is holding these deligates to accountability, either their club deligates or their state deligate.
This means every club member needs to be active in their club.
For example, at the last VKA Deligates meeting this has happened again, Who else in Vic has taken this up with their club deligate???
How simple is it to say ... "this item was not on a distribued agenda in accordance with our own requirements "..so I move that it be a "notice of motion at the next meeting " (given that it is included with the agenda and proper notice so the "members" can seek endorsement from their members ... that's how is should work ..!!! and it can work like that - it has done in the past ....for mine unless it's a safety issue there should be no rule changes unless it is a benefit to those in the sport and anything major should have a phase in / out that way newcomers know where they are at from day dot ...
A few years back we had JMAX get in the back door and it took a State to challenge court action before it was reversed and correctly submitted ....an offer of $5000 was the catalyst for the back door entry ..and thats a fact - documented ...!!!! ..of course no sanction against the back door antics or persons was taken - even price fixing is rewared with elevation to high office ... ...!!!
You just got to wonder why this is done in such disregard of protocol ..... I guess thats why people dont bother with club meetings because no matter what they say or do or collectivly demand ...one person,without authority,can negate the voice of the thousands of stakeholders and no one does anything about it ...
Ok - I give up ....................!!!! Xmas IS coming ...!!!
Exactly correct David. The delegates must be held accountable. There must be a clear cut path of information. Therefore you MUST instruct the delegate at each level of administration as to how he/she will vote or represent those that he/she has been elected to represent. The delegate must not have his/her own mandate to proceed on issues. So many times in the past the system has been high jacked by allowing delegates to vote on 'late agenda' items, without any specific instruction given to the delegate in respect of the issue by the level below his delegation. Any motion put forward by the National body should be disseminated down through the various state and club levels and then instruction sent back up. Any motion from a club should be debated by that club, and then forwarded to the individual state for further assessment. Until this process is adhered to by all involved, the system will remain as fragmented as it has over the last 15 years or so.
If anyone has seen the movie Senna, you will note the comments by Jean-Marie Balestre the then President of the FIA who says in response to driver concerns about a tyre barrier being removed, that it will be done his way, and his way only, only he will make the decision. He then takes a vote from the drivers. Democratic, and achieved the verdict the majority required. Simple system really.
Being a member of a Kart club is a not just a requirement to obtain a licence, it allows you the privilege of being involved in the decision making process. Use it wisely. David Arnold said:
But the club vote for the committee and the committee selects the club Deligate, so it is up to the karter as club level to hold to account the club deligate, that also means to hold the club deligate to hold the state deligate to account also. You can go on about the AKA all you like but in reality, it is the deligates that decide to take things into their own hands without seeking instruction, and this is where the process turns to crap. Everytime the karter lets the deligate get away with this they are contributing to the issue.Harvie Ramsden said:
If it is not on the agenda item the delegate should vote in the negative untill they[delagate] have had instructions from their club to do otherwise .This could b a reason why club members cant b bothered going to meetings because they see so much of this non agenda item stuff getting voted on and they are the ones getting screwed by it all. David Arnold said:
You do realise that these rules would have been voted on at national level by the state deligates and at state level by the club deligates.
Delegates have a habit of voting on things that they have had instructions on because they were not in the meeting agenda Item to begin with. This is the big issue with the managment of this sport, no one is holding these deligates to accountability, either their club deligates or their state deligate.
This means every club member needs to be active in their club.
For example, at the last VKA Deligates meeting this has happened again, Who else in Vic has taken this up with their club deligate???
Any updates to this post as it is a stupid rule change that will not change anything except more sales for Edwards.
This has been a problem for ever.
Delegates are just ordinary people who think they are extraordinary and that being at a meeting bestows upon them a power and wisdom they never possessed and in a lot of cases never will.