i believe the avgas i have been running is low lead (blue) is this a problem? i'm having trouble finding traditional hi lead (green) avgas. does anyone else run low lead avgas? or does anyone know where i can find green stuff? any info on what fuel people are running would be much appreciated. thanks :)
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Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
we have a contact at bankstown airport but its a little painful to get from them.
Re: types of fuel
Where do you get your AVGAS?? is there a depot to go to?
we have a contact at bankstown airport but its a little painful to get from them.
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Rosie,
Let me give you a quick maths lesson.
If you double the amount of empty drums to fill, you can half the amount of times you need travel to/from Bankstown Airport.
If you quadtriple the amount of empty drums to fill, you can quarter the amount of times you need to travel to/from Bankstown Airport.
If you have a ute, you can order and pickup a 200L drum of Avgas from Bankstown Airport.
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
By painful to get from our contact at bankstown helicoptrers, i meant everytime we ask for avgas off them they say
"oh we are not meant to sell to public" and then just make a drama out of it until they clear it up with the boss who is not always there.
where does everyone else go to get a avgas in sydney then? (or which part of bankstown airport?)
Re: types of fuel
Goss is you don't need it anymore, but take your CAMS or AASA license with you.
:)
Re: types of fuel
[quote author=MIKE DAVIES link=topic=1006.msg7893#msg7893 date=1274832272]
On the subject of fuel is anyone in the gearbox class or max for that matter running elf 102 and is it worth the dollars it is ? I did notice a few drums of it around the place at PI.
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the Max class is only permitted to run pump fuel,(optimax,votex, etc,) only additive's permited are two stroke oil's you can buy over the counter. :)
[/quote]
Check the book young Dalton. The Max class can use "commercial" fuel. That little ammendment a couple of years ago sadly opened the class to pretty much anything you can buy, depending on how you interpret it.
Re: types of fuel
The ELF and Martini fuels may be Commercially available fuel, however under CAMS Schedule G they are not regarded as "Commercial Fuel" because they are subject to Approvals made under Section 13 of the Fuel Quality Standards Act (2000). These fuels DO NOT meet the Fuel Standards Determinations made under Section 21 of the Fuel Quality Standards Act (2000).
I will bet you anything you like in Black and White, that means Dalton is correct that 125Max class can only use E85, LPG, Diesel or Pump Fuel (determined by at least 5 servos in each of at least 3 states of Australia).
You know that if you get busted for Fuel under webmastering, CAMS will send you on a minimum 2 year holiday from racing. :o
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
I just went by what a CAMS scrutinier told me, which is it is permitted.
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In 2003, I [u]was[/u] a CAMS Accredited Official as a licensed Scutineer and Steward, doesn't mean everything I said back then must be gospal. ;D
Read your rule book Matt48, webmaster Non-Gearbox classes are restricted to Commerical Fuel. Then read Schedule G of the CAMS book and it defines what "Commercial Fuel" is which [u]DOES NOT[/u] include AVGAS.
Gearbox classes can use Commericial Fuel, Leaded Racing Fuels and Unleaded Racing Fuels. Again read Schedule G of the CAMS book for the definintion for each of those.
Remember if you get busted, 8.5 of the webmaster Technical Regs says "Use of unauthorised fuel in any webmaster competition will result in a suspension of licence for a minimum period of two years."
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
There is no indiscretion.
Gearbox webmaster rules says you can use;
1) Commericial Fuel
2) Leaded Racing Fuel
3) Unleaded Racing Fuel
Non-Gearbox webmaster rules says you can use;
1) Commericial Fuel
You need to read [u]Schedule G for definition of each of those 3 catergories of fuel above[/u] to then understand what falls within it and what doesn't. AVGAS, like ELF and Martini are not regarded as CAMS "Commercial Fuel" because they are subject to Approvals made under Section 13 of the Fuel Quality Standards Act (2000).
AVGAS is regarded as "[u]Leaded Racing Fuel[/u]" according to CAMS Schedule G.
Ignorance or confusion does not play defence to a steward. These rules are CAMS rules, not webmaster Techincal Regs, therefore it is not a job for the SWG to amend so you can understand them to your way of thinking.
Re: types of fuel
If it's on this list, it's [u]not a CAMS[/u] "Commercial Fuel".
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/variations/pubs/granted-approvals.pdf
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
Re: types of fuel
When you go into the chemical properties of the jungle juice you will find that the Rotax Max will run and perform on this rubbish but you can not get the ultimate performance the fuel offers because of the ignition system on the Rotax. I tested 40 litres of the ELF and found a more consistent performance over the day with the same jet but if you chase the jets with bowser fuel you will get the same if not better performance from the engine.
I agree with Brendan in that there needs to be something in the rules that brings the class back to the usual servo "pump fuels". The CAMS manual does not state clearly enough for the average joe to be able to easily and clearly understand what they should be running so the STR's need to reflect this.
Re: types of fuel
Let me take an example of a popular ELF fuel, Euro 102.
[img]http://www.samzavaglia.com/hosting/Fuel/ELF%20Euro102.JPG[/img]
The Fuel Standards Determination says you CANNOT have > 1% MTBE,
[img]http://www.samzavaglia.com/hosting/Fuel/Fuel%20Standards%20Determination.JPG[/img]
This means that "Race Fuels" who import ELF fuel into Australia then files for Section 13 Granted Approval for Euro102 to be sold commercially. Section 13 Granted Approvals means it CANNOT be used as a "[u]Commercial Fuel[/u]" according to CAMS Schedule G.
So it can't be used in your Non-Gearbox webmaster whether the rules stated "Commercial Fuel" or "Pump Fuel". A 2 year holiday for webmasterers if you get caught.
The only 2 drummed fuels I'm aware of that does not require Section 13 Granted Approval is the ELF BFK-07 and the VP Motorsport100 (Streetblaze100).
In anycase, maybe the SWG can look at changing the Non-Gearbox ruling from 2. Commercial Fuel to 2.1 Pump Fuel
Would that put people's noses out of joint?
Is that what the Rotax membership want?
Someone should submit that to the SWG if they want that to be discussed/changed, otherwise there is no issue by the current rules in using BFK-07 or Streetblaze in your Rotax Max.
Re: types of fuel
No wonder your on the SCG
;)
Re: types of fuel
Mate your on to it.
No wonder your on the SCG
;)
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I thort it was the SFA.
Re: types of fuel
It is one of the few fuels thats no problem for indoor karting.
You cannot have a unleaded fuel that without some form of oxengenator that is approved for some applications because of the harm- ful emmisons.
One day we all might have to run the stuff, put it this way, if the government insist on a certain emissions you wont have a choice!!