It's time for a vent session.......
I am sick to death of people (you know who you are) that always for no reason at all make some ridiculous comment such as:
"Not a bad idea mark.
I am in the same boat as you being O-40
It will also give us old farts in kart a bit more race time AND bulk up the fields.
But i bet the AKA wont like it.
only because thay didnt think of it."
Why do you have to make such idiotic remarks when clearly you have nothing to do with the AKA. Good luck to you and your little crew but stop constantly rubbishing the AKA, it is not a perfect organisation by any stretch but to listen to some of the remarks made that are just plain lies annoys me to tears.
I don't know how anyone else out there feels but unless you are qualified to make statements on AKA matters keep it to yourself.
This trend has been going on for some time now and I think it needs to be addressed.
Comments12
Can I make an each way bet on this? I agree very much in principle. Don't just say "Bad AKA!!" and leave it at that.
How about saying "Bad AKA!, You've cocked up because of xyz, and you should have done abc, according to Rule E.FG"
I know, there are countless instances of the upper levels ignoring the Rulebook, but "two wrongs don't make a right" (Though two Wrights make an aeroplane" )
A lot of people I talk to hesitate to put items up for discussion for this very reason. If they put something up, somebody turns it into a bitch session for one or the other organisation.
Nobody wins.
Dennis Neagle said:Can I make an each way bet on this? I agree very much in principle. Don't just say "Bad AKA!!" and leave it at that.How about saying "Bad AKA!, You've cocked up because of xyz, and you should have done abc, according to Rule E.FG"I know, there are countless instances of the upper levels ignoring the Rulebook, but "two wrongs don't make a right" (Though two Wrights make an aeroplane" )
its not an AKA website its a open forum.
If you want a AKA only forum create one with access granted only to AKA licence holders etc.
And the above commentator you refered to does have a connection to the AKA financially so is entitled to say what he says, and its a free country we are entitled to say what we think.
How do you stop the rubbishing? stop giving those who rubbish a reason to do it!!!
it is always the same, anyone in leadership will not be able to keep everyone happy, and being in leadership puts you on a pedistal to be knocked off. HOWEVER. when thoes in leadership, are not (in the oppinion of the vast majority) doing what is in the best interests of the orginisation and members of thoes they lead, what would you have people do??? sit and just be silent??? sit back and wait intill there is no more members of the sport they are passionate about?????where is the accountability process???? While things are not trasparent in the leadership, you will always have people that are passionate about the sport beleaving that things are not done right, and going on past records, that would be a fair centiment i beleave.
Then do we need to bring up the governance issue here again just as one example or do i need to lest a few more from recent history??? where is the accountability of thoes who have not made wise descisions with OUR money. I feel these are the major gripes people have with the AKA.....
1, there is no accountability of thoes who make majorly wrong descisions.
2. there is no trasparency on descisions made by the leadership
3. there is no real comunication between karters and thoes in leadership. (Comunication = infomation flowing both directions)
Fix these issues and i beleave that most of the people that are rubbishing the aka with (so called lies) would either stop it or it would be easy for anyone to see thu them.
Just my humble oppinion....
David,
A very good humble opinion ;-) fix those three points and you are well on the way.
Governance a great egsample, and ACCC lack of accountability is also another one.
Oh and if it wasn't for a forum, not this one blowing the whistle a few years ago, there wouldn't be any AKA today it would have been CAMS!!!
David Arnold said:it is always the same, anyone in leadership will not be able to keep everyone happy, and being in leadership puts you on a pedistal to be knocked off. HOWEVER. when thoes in leadership, are not (in the oppinion of the vast majority) doing what is in the best interests of the orginisation and members of thoes they lead, what would you have people do??? sit and just be silent??? sit back and wait intill there is no more members of the sport they are passionate about?????where is the accountability process???? While things are not trasparent in the leadership, you will always have people that are passionate about the sport beleaving that things are not done right, and going on past records, that would be a fair centiment i beleave. Then do we need to bring up the governance issue here again just as one example or do i need to lest a few more from recent history??? where is the accountability of thoes who have not made wise descisions with OUR money. I feel these are the major gripes people have with the AKA..... 1, there is no accountability of thoes who make majorly wrong descisions. 2. there is no trasparency on descisions made by the leadership
3. there is no real comunication between karters and thoes in leadership. (Comunication = infomation flowing both directions)
Fix these issues and i beleave that most of the people that are rubbishing the aka with (so called lies) would either stop it or it would be easy for anyone to see thu them.
Just my humble oppinion....
#1. David Arnold.
Sounds like a lot of previous problems we have all had are due to poor communication.
If new blood with a good business mind is at the helm then you will see a lot of positives and old ( negative) ways disappearing.
I think any decision maker for any type of sports association always has to ask themselves one main question before any change should be made "IS it Good for the Sport??"
If a 100% Yes is not the answer then it might have not been such a good idea in the first place.
I hope that any new people follow the "Logical Thinking Process" before any change to karting is made in the future.
cheers truey
Hi James,
Thats the good theory, and I do remember a few years ago we got some new people in with so called business skills and was a breath of fressh air and things looked up, but now we are trying to kick these same people out.
I do hope that new people who do come in keep to the faith and act as they should and not fall into the traps and failings our current system has and we again in 3-4 years time try and kick this crew out,
We have to move to governance, simple as that, ask ourselves what made Governance appear on our agendas and even get to the point of being approoved, [BUT ignored]. It was rcognition that the current system was flawed and a something else needs implementing.
Your question of "is it good for the sport"? should be the first thing they ask, but it will always be good for the sport for the person asking the question.
Communication is a vital key to forward progress, TRANSPARANCY at all levels is another, and most of all INVOLVE the average karter. With todays technology there is NO reason as to why it can't be used to better inform and invite karter's feedback.
But it will take some time torebuild crdibility into the system, new faces is a start but new faces in the past have prooven unsuccesful in many places and levels. Lets hope something changes as if nothng does the #s will continue to stagnate.
James True said:#1. David Arnold. Sounds like a lot of previous problems we have all had are due to poor communication. If new blood with a good business mind is at the helm then you will see a lot of positives and old ( negative) ways disappearing.
I think any decision maker for any type of sports association always has to ask themselves one main question before any change should be made "IS it Good for the Sport??"
If a 100% Yes is not the answer then it might have not been such a good idea in the first place.
I hope that any new people follow the "Logical Thinking Process" before any change to karting is made in the future.
cheers truey
I am bet well aware of the bad influence of mr erdmann. It resulted in my club being removed from their home track since the 80's. The comment you made was the one that broke the camels back as you do not hold an aka licence having said that it was not a personnel attack on you. There are others out there that do just attack because it's not their governing body. You are right the aka drivers have been lied to and ripped off, those days will soon be gone, they already are in nsw.
John Daly said:Hi Pierre La-Nabore. ok i know you making comment about the post i put in the o-40......thats fine you are intitled to your opinion.
but the poor AKA drivers have been ripper off... lied to.....and have had there pockets turned in side out and shaken shitless all in a effort to make money to cover legal fees and get rich quick scams.
You are right AT THIS TIME i an anti-aka for those reasons and many others.
Yes i have seen this crap before
Mark as come up with a great idea.
as i said as that aka didnt think of it it wont work BUT
The aka have the idea now and will sit on it for 6-12 months and bring it out and claim it as THERE IDEA.
Now 2 hrs after i posted that comment mark called me on the phone (yes thay have them in wollongong)
We had a 30 min talk about this subject.
He has advised me that 80% of karters...me included... are still thinking of the dark days with MR RICHARD( I WILL RULE KARTING AUST WIDE) ERDMAN driving the bus
we have NEW people on the ground getting things done and things are on the up and up.
Things will change for the better in the next 3-4months or so.
I also point you to david arnolds post (5th post down from the top)
thats it in a nut shell.
would you trust some one that has ripped you off for the last 7 years that i know of
told you lies
and over charged you for everything.
HELL NO
Yes the new guys will cop a slagging for awhile untill thay fix/undo the stupid stuff the pervious guys did.
as there is a ship load of things to do.....
I just hope there guys are approchable and will listen to karters not there wallet
dge on May 25, 2010 at 11:57
Unfortunately the AKA do not have a very good "Reporting and Transparency Culture" They seem to make alot of decisions on there own and then do not relay why they have done them. They do a good job of alienateing them selves from there members (the people that fund them) and they dont look interested in changing this, what are we supposed to think? If any other organisation ran like this they would have the same issues.
This is almost days gone by. Only his sidekick is left and methinks his days are few. Perhaps said person could fall on his sword and save us from any further damage.
Matty Berridge said:Unfortunately the AKA do not have a very good "Reporting and Transparency Culture" They seem to make alot of decisions on there own and then do not relay why they have done them. They do a good job of alienateing them selves from there members (the people that fund them) and they dont look interested in changing this, what are we supposed to think? If any other organisation ran like this they would have the same issues.
Pierre,
I too have grown weary of the rubbishing the AKA has received. I'm also the first to admit I have paid out on the AKA on the odd occasion! I'm yet to be convinced the negative feedback has had much of a positive effect. Do we just wait and see?
It is clear that much of the criticism of the AKA is driven by vested interests. No doubt about that whatsoever. "Karting" is at the crossroads - probably has been for a while now. A section of the karting community has chosen the social road and another section of the community hangs tenuously to the competitive or sporting road. Both groups and their various advocates and supporting bodies seem to be in some sort of battle. The stakes are high it would seem.
Many people derive much of their income from karting - be it competitive or social. These people are probably the professionals - although some of them unfortunately act like amateurs. The rest of us are amateurs, but we expect profesional leadership from those "in charge". Is this too much to ask? Is it reasonable to expect professional outcomes from an amateur system?
Sometime down the track, we will have to acknowledge the path we have chosen and live with the consequences. I have chosen to go down the path of competitive karting but within a defined budget. Racing under the auspices of the AKA, I expect them to perform as well as humanly possible given the tools at their disposal - no more - no less!
A karting body may emerge that threatens the very existence of the AKA. When that happens we may again have to make a choice. I will always choose the system that performs the best for my needs - more vested interest I guess.
Whoever has the best tools for the job and uses them appropriately will attract the bigger market. At the moment, it would seem to be easier to criticise the AKA than actually encourage improved outcomes.
Debates like "One tyre for all Classes" are a nonesense. Especially if you are a competitive karter. If you are a social karter, this topic may be valid. These debates highlight the divisions between the two sections of the karting community with each trying to convince the other of their virtues.
A united karting community could provide the required environment for professional leadership of what is a presently a truly amateur sport.
Col,
You describe accurately what the sport has become and we have two levels some say three, but no less there are levels. The industry, vested interests, have fingers in all levels as thats where the derive their income from the professional and the social levels both require tyres both require engine rebulds etc etc so cannot really focus on one level.
Defining the line between the two is no easy task as there will always be ppl just on either side of the definition.
I have heard this many times, we have a Professional sport run by amateures.
Is it possible to have a profesional board of directors looking after two distinct levels?? we know the current crew can't as they appear to want to exhibit professionalism but fail in the basics when it comes to action.
Until the AKA realise there IS a distinction they will fall victim to other organisations that WILL cater for their needs and who knows maybe 10 years down the track we may have two organisations one that caters for the new guy and the social karter and another looking at the professional side eg faster classes, links to overses racing etc etc. if we could join the two by a simple licence switch who knows it could quite easily work????? Industry would be ok with it as they still have customers to sell to, admin of both organisations could focus better on their membership at the varying levels.???
Karting is at the crossroads, instead of turning 90 degress either direction and head down different paths maybe a dual carriage way is needed???
How many times do we keep giving a amateur system a go before we draw a line and say no more, governance is the way to go??
Colin Edwards said:Pierre, I too have grown weary of the rubbishing the AKA has received. I'm also the first to admit I have paid out on the AKA on the odd occasion! I'm yet to be convinced the negative feedback has had much of a positive effect. Do we just wait and see? It is clear that much of the criticism of the AKA is driven by vested interests. No doubt about that whatsoever. "Karting" is at the crossroads - probably has been for a while now. A section of the karting community has chosen the social road and another section of the community hangs tenuously to the competitive or sporting road. Both groups and their various advocates and supporting bodies seem to be in some sort of battle. The stakes are high it would seem. Many people derive much of their income from karting - be it competitive or social. These people are probably the professionals - although some of them unfortunately act like amateurs. The rest of us are amateurs, but we expect profesional leadership from those "in charge". Is this too much to ask? Is it reasonable to expect professional outcomes from an amateur system?
Sometime down the track, we will have to acknowledge the path we have chosen and live with the consequences. I have chosen to go down the path of competitive karting but within a defined budget. Racing under the auspices of the AKA, I expect them to perform as well as humanly possible given the tools at their disposal - no more - no less!
A karting body may emerge that threatens the very existence of the AKA. When that happens we may again have to make a choice. I will always choose the system that performs the best for my needs - more vested interest I guess.
Whoever has the best tools for the job and uses them appropriately will attract the bigger market. At the moment, it would seem to be easier to criticise the AKA than actually encourage improved outcomes.
Debates like "One tyre for all Classes" are a nonesense. Especially if you are a competitive karter. If you are a social karter, this topic may be valid. These debates highlight the divisions between the two sections of the karting community with each trying to convince the other of their virtues.
A united karting community could provide the required environment for professional leadership of what is a presently a truly amateur sport.