After some of the starts on sat a few need to be reminded on how to do a rolling start maybe standing starts at Calder may jog there memory The COFC may not be talked out of it .
Remember when qualifing used to be important and standing starts were fair for every driver. ;) The driver only had to make it into their grid position box for a red light standing start, the whole starting deal is in each driver's hands for themselves.....what a shomozzel it is from about grid position 15 onwards with rolling starts.
Standing starts only please, sooooooo exciting to watch 50 odd karts revving there tits off balancing the clutch and throttle while trying to keep the engine on the pipe! Just awesome!!!!! So much more talent required from a standing start!! There are incidents from both methods of starting so I fail to see a valid argument there. Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start!
Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start! [/quote] Scott I think you will find it was Rod who smoked the wheels and went sideways into Greg, In fact I know thats what happened as I was behind Greg on the grid and sh## did it give me a fright
Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start! [/quote] Scott I think you will find it was Rod who smoked the wheels and went sideways into Greg, In fact I know thats what happened as I was behind Greg on the grid and sh## did it give me a fright [/quote]
Ok yes Matt you are correct. I think Rod shit himself due to someone in front of him slowing down or something??!!! ???. I wasn't trying to blame Greg for it rather just a memory of the incident. Apoligies to Greg, who went on to win that race. My point was that incidents can happen no matter which starting method is used. The other reason I like standing starts is because no one is disadvantaged due to someone in front of them stuffing around. Anyway that's it from me on the subject as it's a waste of time talking about it.
I think that standing starts are the way forward if I had my choice. From a racing point of view, there is nothing more frustrating being a 'good sportsman' waiting for the green flag and watching a bunch of people get a jump start. It is hard to determine from the tower and to be honest, I don't think the starters [i]really[/i] have their eye on people jumping the start from 3-4 rows back, because each time i have been involved it's pretty messy down the back. With a standing start, it's clear as daylight and not possible to pass 6 karts without making it blatantly obvious.
From a safety point of view (which is the number one reason things will or won't happen.......), I think both standing and rolling starts have an even amount of pro's and con's. Neither is a perfect scenario but if your talking about safety I don't think there is a clear cut winner.
Not getting into a safety debate because it has been done to death before but I never recall anyone crashing into the back of someone else in a webmaster Standing start in over 18 years. Someone please share an instance if this has happened......and there has been plenty of stalled karts at nearly every meeting.
Remember if a driver stalls on the grid, they raise and wave their arms/hands to let the people behind them know. In tin tops this does not happen because the focus is not clear through a car for the people behind. webmasters are also more nimble to turn or stop to avoid a rear ender as appossed to a 2 ton car on cheese cutter tyres in respect to webmaster weight and rubber surface area.
Also about 10-15 years ago, the track row spacings were lengthened apart by CAMS (Nat22 would know about this) which makes it near impossible to crash up the back of the person(s) in front in a webmaster.
Standing starts were removed to trial 2 things; 1) Rotax Max are better with rolling starts, hence to try and avoid them getting lapped by Gearbox in combined grids 2) Speed up the schedule to eliminate wasted track time with grid formation at the starting grid.
You are correct again Sam. Rolling starts were introduced to streamline the starting procedure and give you more racing laps because of the time wasted with standing starts. One way to fix the rolling start is for webmasters to adopt the GT method of rolling starts, they are not allowed to pass until they pass the start finish line. Easy to police and punish those that jump the start. I want a CC and dry with my peanuts please Sam.
Jase I think it was more that he gassed it up and got a heap of wheel spin as he was trying to shoot out around the guy in front of him whether or not he is to close to the guy in front or not I am not sure but he is in 5th I think and Greg is in 6th
[quote]If the rolling was one after the other not inside and outside of the kart in front looking like a M4 trafic jam it would work heaps better. Also policing the gap would help. [/quote]
Correct.
Each form of start has it's pro's and con's, it's hard to police but doing the above would make it better, fairer, and easier to police.
[quote author=ABR link=topic=1242.msg11467#msg11467 date=1304489815] Maybe we should just scrap both options and try a motorcycle GP Le Mans type start, that would be interesting ;D [/quote]
Here is a LeMans Grand Prix start at Wakefield in a 1 hour enduro on the Honda RS125 bike. I'm holding the bike and keeping the revs up, then on the drop of the flag my co-rider (daddy long legs) runs accross the track jumps on the bike and makes a dash for it. All I can say is that I'm happy to try out crazy sh*t but no way was I going the thread this needle through 40 odd bikes on a narrow track like Wakefield trying the win the 1 hour race before Turn 1. That's what co-riders are for. :D Guess what, there wasn't one issue with the start. Go Figure ;D
Jase the GT method is what you are talking about, when the flag or lights go green you all take off, but you must remain in line until you cross the start line. In theory you still should have the same gap to the kart in front and be level with the kart beside you, not pulling out of line ready to pass the kart in front. When I started many years ago we had a LeMans start for the Australian Championship at Amaroo Park for the 100cc NGB class. All the karts were lined up along the side of the track with the pit crew manning the starters, all the drivers were on the other side of the track. When the flag was dropped all the drivers ran to the karts jumped in and had the karts started and off we went, very scary.
At Eastern Creek you could have the drivers at the Rooty Hill RSL and run to the track for their race and at Phillip Island the drivers could start their dash from the Isle of Fright.
Some doritos would be nice with my CC and dry please.
[quote author=Inter74 link=topic=1242.msg11465#msg11465 date=1304485365] Yeah I just thought you were meant to be beside the guy you are next to on the grid, not up the blokes date in front of you.
Ever seen a sprint kart race guys? They are usually almost bumper to bumper from the front to the rear of the formation. [/quote]
[quote author=Inter74 link=topic=1242.msg11465#msg11465 date=1304485365] Looks to me like he got on the gas and had nowhere to go when the bloke in front of him didn't have the same reaction time. [/quote]
Isn't that the issue with rolling starts, they leave you at the mercy of the muppet infront of you and so on and so on and so on to the front of the grid. Ever been sitting at the traffic lights and seen that the light went green 10 seconds ago before you get to move and you are only the 6th car back?? FUc*s you off doesn't it? >:( >:(
LeMans starts are cool but they would take so much time away we would only get 1 racing lap! :'(
Comments28
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
http://www.webmastersvictoria.com/downloads/ENTRY%20&%20Supp%20Regs%20%20Winton%20Rnd%203%202011.pdf
King Of Karting KZ2 entrants should also use this form or contact Matt Wall for more info.
see you there fo what promises to be a great meeting
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
I've got three already confirmed.
cost of the day $130, first session 10am
Lee
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
http://www.webmastersvictoria.com/downloads/ENTRY%20&%20Supp%20Regs%20%20Winton%20Rnd%203%202011.pdf
King Of Karting KZ2 entrants should also use this form or contact Matt Wall for more info.
see you there fo what promises to be a great meeting
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
http://www.webmastersvictoria.com/results.html
Lap times can now be acessed from the page above.
We also had a new lap record in Rotax Heavy, Mike Godsell 1:03.2202
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
;D
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
The driver only had to make it into their grid position box for a red light standing start, the whole starting deal is in each driver's hands for themselves.....what a shomozzel it is from about grid position 15 onwards with rolling starts.
I'm happy with either method of start.
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
There are incidents from both methods of starting so I fail to see a valid argument there.
Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start!
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start!
[/quote]
Scott I think you will find it was Rod who smoked the wheels and went sideways into Greg, In fact I know thats what happened as I was behind Greg on the grid and sh## did it give me a fright
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Remember Greg bass smashing into Rod Prickett which resulted in Rod being spun around and smashed into the wall? Its on utube and was a rolling start!
[/quote]
Scott I think you will find it was Rod who smoked the wheels and went sideways into Greg, In fact I know thats what happened as I was behind Greg on the grid and sh## did it give me a fright
[/quote]
Ok yes Matt you are correct. I think Rod shit himself due to someone in front of him slowing down or something??!!! ???. I wasn't trying to blame Greg for it rather just a memory of the incident. Apoligies to Greg, who went on to win that race. My point was that incidents can happen no matter which starting method is used. The other reason I like
standing starts is because no one is disadvantaged due to someone in front of them stuffing around.
Anyway that's it from me on the subject as it's a waste of time talking about it.
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Two lines of karts to the start line.
Not one or two sitting off to one side to get a jump.
VSKC will look closely at this in the future
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Yeah, thats my choice too, but sometimes a roller is less time consuming at some meetings.
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
From a safety point of view (which is the number one reason things will or won't happen.......), I think both standing and rolling starts have an even amount of pro's and con's. Neither is a perfect scenario but if your talking about safety I don't think there is a clear cut winner.
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Remember if a driver stalls on the grid, they raise and wave their arms/hands to let the people behind them know. In tin tops this does not happen because the focus is not clear through a car for the people behind. webmasters are also more nimble to turn or stop to avoid a rear ender as appossed to a 2 ton car on cheese cutter tyres in respect to webmaster weight and rubber surface area.
Also about 10-15 years ago, the track row spacings were lengthened apart by CAMS (Nat22 would know about this) which makes it near impossible to crash up the back of the person(s) in front in a webmaster.
Standing starts were removed to trial 2 things;
1) Rotax Max are better with rolling starts, hence to try and avoid them getting lapped by Gearbox in combined grids
2) Speed up the schedule to eliminate wasted track time with grid formation at the starting grid.
Peanuts and chips please...... :D
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Beer with your nuts Sam?
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Correct.
Each form of start has it's pro's and con's, it's hard to police but doing the above would make it better, fairer, and easier to police.
Nother one?
;D
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Maybe we should just scrap both options and try a motorcycle GP Le Mans type start, that would be interesting ;D
[/quote]
Here is a LeMans Grand Prix start at Wakefield in a 1 hour enduro on the Honda RS125 bike. I'm holding the bike and keeping the revs up, then on the drop of the flag my co-rider (daddy long legs) runs accross the track jumps on the bike and makes a dash for it.
All I can say is that I'm happy to try out crazy sh*t but no way was I going the thread this needle through 40 odd bikes on a narrow track like Wakefield trying the win the 1 hour race before Turn 1. That's what co-riders are for. :D
Guess what, there wasn't one issue with the start. Go Figure ;D
[img]http://www.samzavaglia.com/photogallery/Wakefield%201%20Hour/LeMans%20style%20start.jpg[/img]
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
At Eastern Creek you could have the drivers at the Rooty Hill RSL and run to the track for their race and at Phillip Island the drivers could start their dash from the Isle of Fright.
Some doritos would be nice with my CC and dry please.
Re: Round 3 ENTRY FORMS
Yeah I just thought you were meant to be beside the guy you are next to on the grid, not up the blokes date in front of you.
Ever seen a sprint kart race guys? They are usually almost bumper to bumper from the front to the rear of the formation.
[/quote]
[quote author=Inter74 link=topic=1242.msg11465#msg11465 date=1304485365]
Looks to me like he got on the gas and had nowhere to go when the bloke in front of him didn't have the same reaction time.
[/quote]
Isn't that the issue with rolling starts, they leave you at the mercy of the muppet infront of you and so on and so on and so on to the front of the grid. Ever been sitting at the traffic lights and seen that the light went green 10 seconds ago before you get to move and you are only the 6th car back?? FUc*s you off doesn't it? >:( >:(
LeMans starts are cool but they would take so much time away we would only get 1 racing lap! :'(