- For a while now karters have been both being screwed and also paying for the mistakes of incompatant and corupt leaders in our choesen recreational sport.
- We have attacked the pawers that be, winged, moaned and grumbled about how we have been treated and that we want change. Then when it has come time to vote we seem to not be so serious about effecting change and the same people get back in AGAIN, either because we have been silent at our club meatings or we have not taken the time to do research on thoes that are up for election so that we can make a edjucated vote. Either way it is OUR fault if our choesen recreational sport is headed for the shitter as WE have elected its leaders.
- There is some good news in all this thou, The exaxtly the same thing has just happened in a much larger scale in a national election, Looking like the same incompatant, courupt, financialy incompatant leader may be re-elected so its not just the karting world that are silly and/or lazy with how they vote.
Comments12
Hi David,
This is said after every AGM of club/state/Nat.
Apathy is the biggest killer of this sport. The karter feels his voice isn't being heard so why bother, just go and race.
We are volunteer based trying to run a professional type sport and are suffering from NOT moving to proper governance.
Many clubs struggle to even get enough memebers to their club meetings despite having several hundred members!!! and this allows the WRONG people to become deep rooted and near impossible to remove.
Cure apathy and we are along way to being better.
AsI said before that karters feel their views aren't being heard at the right level, and one of governance key points was that CLUBS had the vote NOT the state. If clubs had DIRECT access to the baord committee of Governance I feel many more karters would get involved at club level as they would know they have a direct line to the decision makrs rather than towing astate line or risk being segregated because of this. cut a level of beauracracy out completely.
The success of this would depend on the various committees efforts in seeking views on their particular area and not go off on their own, but given these committees are elected by the CLUBS they are less likely to go offf on their own as they will have 100 clubs watching them and have to account to them not to a few mates at the moment.
But from what I am hearing some at the top don't like that idea as it threatens their position and hence will use the weakness of the current system to keep them in their seats as we have to use the current system to boot them into governance.
hi some things never change. 15 years ago the same sort of thing was talked about.. about all i would like 2 say is you r on the right track when u talk about the admin from within the sport. this is most important i think. sure we may b limited to the ability of the people in karting but they know the sport. best plan to my mind is to keep the club members up to date with all the info that is available. they can then make an informed decision on the subject. regards jp
Regardless of the outcome when the Canberra kids finish squabbling about who's turn it is to play in the sandpit, the result will be exactly the same as with the AKA.............we get exactly what we deserve.
I think Paul's response regarding participation at club level is possibly one of the most important aspects of our current dilemma. Doubtless all clubs have at least one person that shows up at every meeting, event and working bee, all the while trying to push the club in direction at odds with the majority. Most clubs cannot refuse help from any quarter, as there are never enough hands to go round, so the price they end up paying for this 'assistance' is often not fully known until well into the future.
Far from silencing these people, what is needed is to dilute their influence, by making their voice part of a larger crowd.
This would also be true on the national level.
From reading many posts on Kartbook, it is fairly obvious who the 1% are that actually know what's going on, do not keep recycling the same old crap and who do not appear to have axes to grind (I'm not one of them). These people and others like them may end up being the kernel of the group that actually ends up calling the AKA's bluff and calling our governing body to account in a court of law. WHEN, not if, this happens, it is inconceivable that the AKA's legal advisors would recommend doing battle in a court they did not control, so I can only hope that it does not cost us all too much in legal fees.
Thing is, if we jump forward several months to when this all happens and an administrator is appointed, all the seats at the big table will be up for grabs and we end up with our heads up our ar$es again, because we end up with the same problem again.
Those that have what is needed are tired of the snipers, so they keep their heads down....
Those that could become what is needed are more than likely working 16 hours in their day jobs and raising a family.
Those that just want to race....................still just want to race (call them 'Norm' ......remember the life be in it ads).
And those who's monumental lack of talent, ability and vision is eclipsed only by their boundless desire to gain power and influence over others..................Vote 1 Mr Status Quo
Hi John,
Passage of info has been another area of concern, only selected stuff gets down to the karter and this is done deliberately as he who controls the flow of info controls the sport. We have even seen states refused answers to very valid questions as they know the answers will expose them etc. In todays technology there is NO excuse not to be able to better inform karters of whats going on.
They also need to be more proactive in advising their membership not just issue a one line e-mail and HOPE some one reads it.
I am positive if the info was better passed on some of the, many of, the bad decisions they have mnade over theyears wouldn't have occured.
john pizarro said:hi some things never change. 15 years ago the same sort of thing was talked about.. about all i would like 2 say is you r on the right track when u talk about the admin from within the sport. this is most important i think. sure we may b limited to the ability of the people in karting but they know the sport. best plan to my mind is to keep the club members up to date with all the info that is available. they can then make an informed decision on the subject. regards jp
Hi Steve,
Very good interpretation of what I see also.
I agree to silence these ppl we need more voices in the room as its my experience these guys become very sheepish and quiet when they realise they are no longer in their controled situation in which they had control.
There is safety in numbers
Steve O'Neil said:Regardless of the outcome when the Canberra kids finish squabbling about who's turn it is to play in the sandpit, the result will be exactly the same as with the AKA.............we get exactly what we deserve.
I think Paul's response regarding participation at club level is possibly one of the most important aspects of our current dilemma. Doubtless all clubs have at least one person that shows up at every meeting, event and working bee, all the while trying to push the club in direction at odds with the majority. Most clubs cannot refuse help from any quarter, as there are never enough hands to go round, so the price they end up paying for this 'assistance' is often not fully known until well into the future.
Far from silencing these people, what is needed is to dilute their influence, by making their voice part of a larger crowd.
This would also be true on the national level.
From reading many posts on Kartbook, it is fairly obvious who the 1% are that actually know what's going on, do not keep recycling the same old crap and who do not appear to have axes to grind (I'm not one of them). These people and others like them may end up being the kernel of the group that actually ends up calling the AKA's bluff and calling our governing body to account in a court of law. WHEN, not if, this happens, it is inconceivable that the AKA's legal advisors would recommend doing battle in a court they did not control, so I can only hope that it does not cost us all too much in legal fees.
Thing is, if we jump forward several months to when this all happens and an administrator is appointed, all the seats at the big table will be up for grabs and we end up with our heads up our ar$es again, because we end up with the same problem again.
Those that have what is needed are tired of the snipers, so they keep their heads down....
Those that could become what is needed are more than likely working 16 hours in their day jobs and raising a family.
Those that just want to race....................still just want to race (call them 'Norm' ......remember the life be in it ads).
And those who's monumental lack of talent, ability and vision is eclipsed only by their boundless desire to gain power and influence over others..................Vote 1 Mr Status Quo
can some one with perspective and facts put up a list of people that were in power and what happened in that time. Both good and bad things that were introduced, deleated, changed ect. Add that to a list of karting numbers, broken down by state and also partisapation levels (this may not equate to licence numbers), and how many new members.
When it comes to election time, this infomation along with basic info on thoes that have nominated for a position would be a great help for thoes of us that realy have no or very little idea who we are voting for.
What are others thoughts on this idea??
good idea I wonder if karters would have voted for someone found guilty in the fed court for a kart related item?? and another who knew of the illegality but didn't stop it?
But then again figures can be massaged to support any arguement.
The resumes of candidates were once distributed around the clubs but that was years ago when karting admin was much more professional. maybe that should be brought back???
David Arnold said:can some one with perspective and facts put up a list of people that were in power and what happened in that time. Both good and bad things that were introduced, deleated, changed ect. Add that to a list of karting numbers, broken down by state and also partisapation levels (this may not equate to licence numbers), and how many new members. When it comes to election time, this infomation along with basic info on thoes that have nominated for a position would be a great help for thoes of us that realy have no or very little idea who we are voting for. What are others thoughts on this idea??
Gee fellas you really should take a bit of care calling people corrupt et al on a public forum. Despite the reference to Federal politics the inference is clear enough.
I know you are all lawyers but it would appear you don't know the law all that well.
There's no doubting your passion but there is only one way to rid the sport of the people who seek control for controls sake or to exercise their Hitler complex.
Get in and get involved not just for a year but for ten years. Go through the system and change it as you go.
I've been involved in the sport since 1966 on and off and have returned after a twenty year absence. Nothing has changed all that much!!! Just the names have changed.
The ones you seek to remove are the only ones with the committment to remain and last the distance. That's why they are so hard to remove.
Answer: Do the same.
The sport is ruled by self interest and probably will never change.
Make it so it is ruled by people with the interests of the sport as their vision.
That's your first BIG problem. Fifty people will have one hundred visions of where the sport should be going and how it should be run.
If officials are truly corrupt, stealing the funds and you have proof...get the coppers in.
If you don't have proof...real proof, be prepared to get yourself elected and do it the hard way...somebody has to or nothing will ever change.
The change is realitively easy but the real hard part is keeping it going.
The election of new officials is only the beginning.
The dark side will keep trying to come back year after year.
Obviously a well considered reply Allan, but there is one critical thing that appears to have changed.
It would appear (from many posts here on Kartbook) that the principles of 'Due Process' are not necessarily being applied with respect to the administrative rules and procedures as set down in the AKA manual. In effect, this appears to lead to the situation whereby a person, acting in good faith, is effectively prevented from working within the rules to effect change.
Take for example, the decision to adopt a Governance model. My understanding is that the motion was passed several years ago, but still has not been implemented. Several people have made formal inquiries as to why an agreed policy has not been implemented and are met with either stony silence, ambiguous answers, or outright agression for having the temerity to question those in high office.
Earlier this year, I was an official at the Over 40's meeting at Coffs (my club) and got caught up in what turned out to be a very nasty and patently unfair incident. The way it was handled and the absolutely blatant bias and corrupt nature of the process has left me cold and very bitter. To even contemplate the thought of joining the ranks of administrators at this time makes me ill, but should it occur that an administrator is appointed and they clean things up, I would be delighted to be part of a new governing body.
Allan King said:Gee fellas you really should take a bit of care calling people corrupt et al on a public forum. Despite the reference to Federal politics the inference is clear enough. I know you are all lawyers but it would appear you don't know the law all that well.
There's no doubting your passion but there is only one way to rid the sport of the people who seek control for controls sake or to exercise their Hitler complex.
Get in and get involved not just for a year but for ten years. Go through the system and change it as you go.
I've been involved in the sport since 1966 on and off and have returned after a twenty year absence. Nothing has changed all that much!!! Just the names have changed.
The ones you seek to remove are the only ones with the committment to remain and last the distance. That's why they are so hard to remove.
Answer: Do the same.
The sport is ruled by self interest and probably will never change.
Make it so it is ruled by people with the interests of the sport as their vision.
That's your first BIG problem. Fifty people will have one hundred visions of where the sport should be going and how it should be run.
If officials are truly corrupt, stealing the funds and you have proof...get the coppers in.
If you don't have proof...real proof, be prepared to get yourself elected and do it the hard way...somebody has to or nothing will ever change.
The change is realitively easy but the real hard part is keeping it going.
The election of new officials is only the beginning.
The dark side will keep trying to come back year after year.
Hi Steve
I hope to catch up at the Yamaha and if you have time, talk about some of the issues we face and how we can make a difference. One thing that concerns me at the moment and should concern all Karters in NSW is the AKA NSW Code of Conduct. I believe in the intent of a code of conduct but this one has a very inherent danger. The last paragraph of section 3 COMMITMENT states,
”The SKC acknowledges that its function is that of a state body. When the SKC meets, it meets as a State body to make fair, honest and proper decisions in the best interests of AKA NSW and its members whether or not that best interest may be adverse to their home Club.”
So a business item is listed on the SKC agenda. Your Club meets and instructs its delegate to vote in a particular way and your delegate goes to the meeting and someone says that in the best interest of AKA NSW you should vote contrary to the way you have been directed to vote by your Club, What do you do?
The worrying fact in this is that Delegates actually believe that they don’t have to follow the directions given to them by their Club. Any wonder the AKA found themselves appearing before a Federal Court Judge for price fixing when they no doubt felt they were acting in the best interest of AKA NSW when delegates voted to set standard prices for track hire in NSW.
Clubs and their Delegates should remain totally independent and free from outside influences, allowing the decisions made at Club level to control and guide our sport. We all know of the decisions made by SKC’s and NKC that clearly have not been in the best interest of the sport and those that have failed the Code Conduct test are still there.
Regards Brian
Steve O'Neil said:Obviously a well considered reply Allan, but there is one critical thing that appears to have changed.It would appear (from many posts here on Kartbook) that the principles of 'Due Process'........... DIV>
Attachments:
AKA NSW Code of Conduct.pdf, 398 KB
Brian,
The implentaion of governance will go ALONG way to fixing this as clubs will DIRECT access to the committees not having to go via state or use delegates as such so NO real chance of a delegate going off on his own tangent against instruction.
Allan,
Been involved for nearly 17 years now, what steve has said is correct we have to use the stated procedures but those at the top DON'T and to kic them out or punish them somehow we have to use the same rules they choose to ignore/bend/invent. what do you do??? whats been going on is not financial corruption but MORAL corruption.
Thats why GOVERNANCE must come in, the exec has been told to do it but they just ignore it!!!
Brian Ramsay said:Hi Steve
I hope to catch up at the Yamaha and if you have time, talk about some of the issues we face and how we can make a difference. One thing that concerns me at the moment and should concern all Karters in NSW is the AKA NSW Code of Conduct. I believe in the intent of a code of conduct but this one has a very inherent danger. The last paragraph of section 3 COMMITMENT states,
”The SKC acknowledges that its function is that of a state body. When the SKC meets, it meets as a State body to make fair, honest and proper decisions in the best interests of AKA NSW and its members whether or not that best interest may be adverse to their home Club.”
So a business item is listed on the SKC agenda. Your Club meets and instructs its delegate to vote in a particular way and your delegate goes to the meeting and someone says that in the best interest of AKA NSW you should vote contrary to the way you have been directed to vote by your Club, What do you do?
The worrying fact in this is that Delegates actually believe that they don’t have to follow the directions given to them by their Club. Any wonder the AKA found themselves appearing before a Federal Court Judge for price fixing when they no doubt felt they were acting in the best interest of AKA NSW when delegates voted to set standard prices for track hire in NSW.
Clubs and their Delegates should remain totally independent and free from outside influences, allowing the decisions made at Club level to control and guide our sport. We all know of the decisions made by SKC’s and NKC that clearly have not been in the best interest of the sport and those that have failed the Code Conduct test are still there.
Regards Brian
Steve O'Neil said:Obviously a well considered reply Allan, but there is one critical thing that appears to have changed.It would appear (from many posts here on Kartbook) that the principles of 'Due Process'........... DIV>
Paul,
Just a minor correction if I may.
You say the exec but you mean the secretariat, (the constitution that changed the old fashioned names to executive this and executive that was found to be invalid in 2004/2005) dont want governance but that is only partly true and ignores the way the NKC works. The Secretariat don't vote on the NKC so it's not possible for them to prevent governance if it's put on the agenda to vote on. Yes, they can leave it off the agenda or work around getting it discussed otherwise but at the end of the day, it's our dear members, the states, and their NKC delegates that just don't bother to move it forward and then you get this or that personally interested mischief putting up alternatives, usually to his or her or their own agenda.
Like Whiting's last piece of rubbish. Leave the NKC in place atop a non skilled 'executive'. That is so stupid, it's hilarious; the NKC are the problem and, as a body or constitutional process, all of the problem, they are not part of the solution. In contrast to what Whiting claims as support for his model, the Australian Sports Commissions says abolish councils. And the AKA is a wonderful example of why the ASC says abolish councils.
Anyway, back to the main track, the states and their NKC delegates. The states need to instruct their NKC delegates to implement the approved best management model from 2005 to 2008. That means the clubs need to tell their SKC delegates to keep it on the agenda at State Council. And if clubs are going to do that, club members need to keep it on their club meeting agendae and you and I know Paul, and the SKC's know, and NKC delegates know, and the AKA Secretariat know, how much chance there is of that happening.
And therein lies the problem.