I have only reacently been aware that these monetry fines go the the State karting body.
Personally I feel the need for any kind of fine for a driver infringment. Penilise there resualts for the race or event or do i licence suspention, but not a fine.
I feel this is just another revenue rasing method undertaken but the AKA, just like speeding fines and this sort of penelty is just going to piss people off, helping more people leave the sport.
Givent he number of complaints about corrupt officials and biased descisions, If i was to recieve a fine for a driver related offence, I would leave the sport and not return.
Who came up with this hair brain, revenue rasing scheme??
Does an association have the legal authority to issue monetry fines in the first place??
Unfortunantly the Officials doing their job have been given this type of penalty to use, so I do not blame them, as they are following the rules dictated to them, But blame the inderviduals that have implimented this idea in the first place.
Just my thoughts on the matter, what do others think.
Comments12
Hi David,
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I think they CAN issue a fine BUT have NO right to actually collect it if the person doesn't pay? their only recourse to a person not paying would be to suspend his licence until the money is paid. But given we haven't seen many over the top fines this matter doesn't arise too often. And if they did hit someone with $5k they more than likley did something BIG and wouldn't be coming back anyway.
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As for a fine itself, a race penalty or suspension is much more effective I believe. as if something occurs that warrants a big fine a suspension usually accompanies it ie what would you do to attract a $5000 fine??? wouldn't a long holiday be better??? I think we can get rid of the smaller fines and only issue big ones when neccessary, this would fix the revenue raising claim we hear all the time.
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Take the option out and use other penalties will fix a lot of the problem.
I think monetary fines are a terrible way of dispensing justice in karting, for two reasons.
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1. It does nothing to dispel the impression some racers have of the officials that they're "feathering their nest". Most people I've ever met who've had to pay a fine are complaining about having to contribute to "the beer fund", and not making any mention of avoiding transgressing again in future. It usually makes them blame the officials for what has happened, rather than taking responsibility for "whatever it was they did wrong".
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2. A monetary fine is a totally inconsistent way of applying penalties. I know some people who spend $60 grand a year or more on karting. For them a $500 dollar fine is a cheap way to grab a few spots on the grid. I know other people who do as much as they can with a $3-4K budget, and for them a $500 dollar fine is 3 months out of the sport.
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In my opinon, ALL penalties should be applied to racing. Grid penalty, exclusion from heat or event, suspension. Those penalties have the same effect on everyone. They also don't give the karter the impression that the officials are somehow gaining from their punishment, either.
Agree totally Dave / Col
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The 3rd reason why it doesn’t work is when it comes to Midgets / Rocky / Juniors, who pays for the fine? Not them, but the parents, so the kid losses and learns nothing! If it was sorted out on the day the kid is affected straight away.    Â
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Another point that I don’t understand is this clause  Â
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6.1(a) fines of $250.00 or less must be paid within 1 hour of the Stewards decision.
If the licence holder does not comply with the time limits for payment of a fine, the
Licence is automatically suspended for a period of two days for every day between the
Date notified as the date by which the fine/fee was due to be paid and the date on
Which all directions in the notification have been complied with.
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Do the Stewards now carry around an eftpos machine so you can compete in the next heat??
Monetary penalty - its like a competition who can get the person into the fence hardest - the bigger the fine, the bigger the points!
+ 1.
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We are AMATEURS. Fines have absolutely NO place in this sport whatsoever. Even professional kart drivers are better punished through removal of points/disqualification etc.
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I heard a rumour recently that an official was considering fining a driver $1,000...............
That's more than most peopes weekly wage or maybe as much as half of some peoples annual karting budget.
How does this improve the sport or improve participation rates?
Which dongbeater/group of dongbeaters thought this would be a good idea?Damian Cane said:
In a sport which basicaly a non professioal sport, fining people is basically extorsion as far as I can see. Dictionary definition.
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(Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority).Â
It certaily does nothing to improve the sport at all.
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From where I sat (30 metres behind) it looked like a racing incident.Â
There was certainly no malice intended. Maybe a little over-estimation by one of the drivers but nothing that's never been seen before on a race track on any given weekend. Nobody was injured or even looked like being injured. Certainly wasn't reckless driving by my standard.steve jarrett said:
anthony what was the offence
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one cable tie = $50 so $1000 must be a doozey
As a relative newcomer to the sport, I was astonished when I found out that I could be fined actual hard earned cash for relatively minor incidents. Reading that part of the rulebook put a sour taste in my mouth before I ever turned a wheel!I haven never had a karting penalty of any kind, However I 100% agree that penalties should only be via removal of points/disqualification etc.Only In worst case or stand out situations if fines were to be applied - how about something like this.Cause an incident bending other competitors axle - Pay $100 toward new axle for other competitor.Cause an incident which removes another competitor from an event - Pay the sum of the meeting entry fee to the other competitor.Cause injury to another competitor due to non-compliant kart component (too many threads showing on floortray bolts for example) - Pay $100 toward other comptitors medical bills.All that said, don't we go racing for an adrenalin rush and for fun? They way the book reads now, You need to really need to love karting to join in. Good thing I do.Â
Fair enough too, I agree with thatI suppose my point was, If we are going to fine people lets put the money back into the people who support the sport rather than the beer fund :)
steve jarrett said:
tim once you put your kart on the track you accept it may be damaged
and anything can happen in that first corner
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no monetary fines of any sort
penalties where it matters, placing penalties or exclusion from events
doesnt matter how much money you have then
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I'm new to the sport and I am perplexed by a fining system of a monetary fine in an amateur sport.
I have played 20+ years of soccer. I have seen people even punch officials (which I don't condone) but the penalty wasn't monetary. It was a massive suspension.
We don't get paid to race, we are not nrl players and we are just doing this for fun. I'm sure there are some fruit cakes out there on the tracks but if the risk is a monetary fine I will simply put around at the back of the field. I'm not about to charge hard at the front and have to cough up some hard earned for an mistake/accident or a racing incident.
Just seems anti racing. Rich people can play ad hard as they want. Everyone else needs to walk around on egg shells.
Stu
Well guys, we jumped up and down about improving the quality of starts and it seems the AKA actually listened to us and altered the way starts are arranged (every race I've been to in the last 6 months has had textbook starts).
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Perhaps it's time to make a fuss about fines...? I would definitely like to see change.
It would be a positive move.
Grid penalties, time penalties, exclusion etc clearly only effect the domain in which the problem occurred. As a result the linkage is clear and the end result is education. The penalty effects all competitors equally and fairly.
Monetary fines effect areas outside of the sport and generate resentment more than education. The fine is not of an equal effect across the range of competitors.
We are not a paramilitary organisation imposing penalties on conscripts. We are a commercial entity that needs to attract and retain customers. Part of this task requires maintaining order and fair racing, however in doing so we need to look at the optimal means of carrying out this task so as to maintain a good quality of racing and retain our customer base. Given the rate of churn in the sport we should be duty bound to look at ways of educating people not aggravating them, particularly given the range of alternatives on offer.
Col Fink said:
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Perhaps it's time to make a fuss about fines...? I would definitely like to see change.
Take a close look at the AKA rule book. I think this shows the mentality of the AKA.
First up who is in the aka, state and national level.
2nd (and this cracks me up) it then runs thru all the penelties, all the things that you can be penilised for, how to appeal a descision ect. Then it goes on about the sport with class rules, track rules, class specifications ect.
Maybe it is just me but I found this to be a very bazar order for a rule book.
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Persionaly I think they need to keep the penelties and rules relevent. I feel that there are a lot both penelties and rules that could be imfroved and other that make no sence what so ever.
If there are enough karters that feel the same way, then this should be taken to the AKA to be changed.