I think that it is ordinary that the thread regarding the testing of an engine and the discussion around the perception of people with influence.
The reasoning seems inconsistent with other decisions to lock threads in the past. With the exception of a bit of banter between two members the only personally offensive content I found was in this post.
Paul - if you or anyone else has read Sabrinas comments, they have DONE IT FOR their OWN PRIVATE testing. (not having a dig at you as you seemed to be more informed than some...)
There is nothing else to say on the matter - I'm locking this thread due to peoples inadequate ability to READ. When you all learn how to read - then come back and start discussing the facts.
My ability to read Luke is sound. Please do not generalise about peoples abilities or their reasons for commenting. No need for caps. As for using the phrase, There is nothing else to say on the matter, that is your own personal opinion and reeks of censorship IMHO and only fuels speculation.
Comments12
Totally agree Alex and your parting comment : There is nothing else to say on the matter, that is your own personal opinion and reeks of censorship IMHO and only fuels speculation.
Especially after he already told us that he will be testing for Remo as well???????? What a junior motor???
"these guys are doing product testing for their own benefit and nobody elses" Then how and why are they allowed to operate under AKA Insurance????
So can anyone close a thread if they don't agree or is Luke a 2IC for kartbook
.
I agree lads. I've had a busy day and most of this happened without my involvement. I try to avoid locking threads, deleting posts and suspending or banning users as much as possible.
Luke has some moderator privileges on Kartbook, yes. One man can't possibly look after the place 24/7, and Luke graciously donates his time to help out. He and I don't always agree on the best course of action - clearly we haven't in this case because I wouldn't have locked the thread, personally - but let's recall that everyone is human, so I don't want to hear anyone piling on him, please. He and I will discuss this later tonight.
So, I had a chat with Remo today, and in my opinion (as a civilian, not in any official capacity on Kartbook) he was ill-advised to have Josh Denton test the motor, for precisely the reason that we're seeing here, the potential for people to perceive something untoward.
I'd suggest that if Remo really was doing anything untoward, he would have been a bit more secretive about it than testing the day after a major meeting at a popular track! Still, Kartbook is here partly so that us plebs can keep those in power in line, and this is one such situation where public commentary - so long as it's done fairly - is appropriate.
That said, let's bear a few facts in mind.
1. The "new" AKA has canned the future engine project for the time being. No-one knows what their intentions are.
2. Craig Denton is only the President of the AKA for another few days, I think. After that, I'm not aware of any official roles he has in the AKA? I don't think he has any, but I'm happy to be corrected (please provide facts only, not speculation).
3. Craig Denton is not on the working party that was assigned to the future engine project, but I agree that it wasn't a good look to have the President involved (especially if the project was still active or his Presidency was to continue - neither of which are true).
4. To be fair to young Josh, he is the current National Champ in Junior Clubman and a seriously good steerer, so there are plenty of reasons for him to be the first kid on someone's "to call" list when a junior tester is required! I feel sorry for him that his dad is the President, to be honest! I'm sure he'll enjoy the spotlight being on the Denton name for reasons of his own doing in future when his dad hands over the reins of the AKA in the next few days.
In conclusion, yes, this topic is fair game, but only if you handle it in a respectful manner. Let's not have wild speculation and unfair accusations thrown around, okay?
Ta.
Col.
Thanks Col,
No malice was intended towards Luke. My experience working at UQ has left me with a heightened sense of perception issues. Not so bad now that I have taken to wearing a tin foil hat...... the voices, the voices.
Col in all fairness to Josh he has become the meet in the sandwich and I don't think anyone here on either side of the debate is firing any accusations or directing any malice toward the kid.
That said here is an extract from a previous AKA release:
A committee chaired by AKA New South Wales President and NKC co-delegate Steve King, in consultation with Craig Denton and Chris Dell will investigate the options for improving the parity of the current engines in the Midgets and Rookies categories.
Karting WA President and NKC delegate Gary Light will chair a second committee in consultation with Kevin McKinnon and Drew Price with a focus on the National and Clubman engines.
We are not aware if Mr Denton there is a future for him at the head of the organization as yet? There are still 3 places to be filled on the board, one of which is an industry representative and 2 others. There has been no announcement as yet, even after the National conference a fortnight ago (NO minutes either) as to who may be invited onto that board.
There is the bigger picture for people to contemplate and make their own assessments.
yes we are all human,
in regards to #1 Col Not sure the engine has been canned just put on hold, something which many kartbookers said should have happened long ago when we moved to governance, mainly to not waste time nor make a poor decision which past history they were likely to do. So it will be upto the board where to next? do they take a ew steps back start again or take the info gained so far and evaluate it? or do they go right back to the beginnng and ask the question again?
#2 will still have influence and as Nev says there are still positions left unfilled and there is as importantly committee positions yet to be announced so plenty of opportunity for mr Denton to get a seat.
#3 Agree not a good look given past history of AKA implementation of controlled parts
#4 yes the young fella is a good steerer, but as in #3 perception is reality.
I don't think Remo did anything wrong other than pick this driver the connection was to close to the admin. But in business its common practice to wooo the decision makers by contributing to their campaigns if political etc as I said before the AKA should be onto any conflict of ineterst however minor or remote if they want to keep the decision free of controversy.
Its not about Remo nor Josh its about processes, and concern about "old habits" not dieing.Col Fink said:
I agree lads. I've had a busy day and most of this happened without my involvement. I try to avoid locking threads, deleting posts and suspending or banning users as much as possible.
Luke has some moderator privileges on Kartbook, yes. One man can't possibly look after the place 24/7, and Luke graciously donates his time to help out. He and I don't always agree on the best course of action - clearly we haven't in this case because I wouldn't have locked the thread, personally - but let's recall that everyone is human, so I don't want to hear anyone piling on him, please. He and I will discuss this later tonight.
So, I had a chat with Remo today, and in my opinion (as a civilian, not in any official capacity on Kartbook) he was ill-advised to have Josh Denton test the motor, for precisely the reason that we're seeing here, the potential for people to perceive something untoward.
I'd suggest that if Remo really was doing anything untoward, he would have been a bit more secretive about it than testing the day after a major meeting at a popular track! Still, Kartbook is here partly so that us plebs can keep those in power in line, and this is one such situation where public commentary - so long as it's done fairly - is appropriate.
That said, let's bear a few facts in mind.
1. The "new" AKA has canned the future engine project for the time being. No-one knows what their intentions are.
2. Craig Denton is only the President of the AKA for another few days, I think. After that, I'm not aware of any official roles he has in the AKA? I don't think he has any, but I'm happy to be corrected (please provide facts only, not speculation).
3. Craig Denton is not on the working party that was assigned to the future engine project, but I agree that it wasn't a good look to have the President involved (especially if the project was still active or his Presidency was to continue - neither of which are true).
4. To be fair to young Josh, he is the current National Champ in Junior Clubman and a seriously good steerer, so there are plenty of reasons for him to be the first kid on someone's "to call" list when a junior tester is required! I feel sorry for him that his dad is the President, to be honest! I'm sure he'll enjoy the spotlight being on the Denton name for reasons of his own doing in future when his dad hands over the reins of the AKA in the next few days.
In conclusion, yes, this topic is fair game, but only if you handle it in a respectful manner. Let's not have wild speculation and unfair accusations thrown around, okay?
Ta.
Col.
I am all for doing things "by the book"...100% no question.
I am also behind the new board 100% and I honestly do not believe that there will be any way that external influences will be able to sway the minds of the board.
Yes, there may well be opinions that differ - not unlike the "opinions" of those who are so very quick to bag out the likes of Mr Denton. Seriously, what makes YOUR opinion any more valid than that of the hundreds that voted him into the role? I am not trying to be a smartarse ( generally comes pretty easy for me ;) ), but in all seriousness, there will always be a minority of people that disagree with ANY decision made - regardless of the benefits to the karter.
This forum is a great place to voice opinions, and as per the old adage "they are like arses...everyone has one", but I think that we have become rather vindictive in our inability to accept that. I do believe that there are people on here that have nothing better than to seek some form of vengeance against previous actions which in their opinion were wrong.
I CAN appreciate the fact that there have been many instances where controlled parts (Air boxes, mufflers) have been forced on us, and those decisions have been somewhat controversial - however it would be a brave, naïve fool who would stand up now and state that it has not been a good move. Yes it hurt, but it has also created a lot more parity !!
EVERY race format in the world is driven by PARITY !!
With the 20:20 vision of hindsight, we would have established a bullet proof formula back during the dying days of the McCulloch !! However, what seems to be missed in this brilliance is that KARTERS will do whatever it takes to win. This has resulted in rule change after rule change to chase the ever illusive "PARITY" and exactly why we are were we are now.
Now not that I want to appear critical of the current management, but seriously we cant even get a rule book that doesn't require a multitude of addendums before its released each year !!
So, all that being said, the new board HAS demonstrated that it has the experience and drive to put the project on hold and to suggest that they will be open to external influences is just scaremongering at best.
In Summary
I am all for a replacement engine
I am all for the new board to be in control of that process.
I am not in the slightest concerned re the conspiracy theories that are being discussed.
The vast majority of karters I have spoken with are more than happy that there will be a better option than the current cast port engines and shithouse parity !
BUT - Just MY opinion
RegardsDave
David on your point about parts, are you honestly telling us that the introduction of a grey coloured air box with a sponge filter benefited anyone other than the importer and retailers?
You show a distinct lack of understanding of procedure if you believe Mr Denton was voted into the role by 100's of people. At best he could have been voted in by 6, however us plebs again have been kept in the dark and there is no official results of polling numbers, only the end result as the minutes lack detail and substance, another thing hopefully the new board can amend...... David Price said:
I am all for doing things "by the book"...100% no question.
I am also behind the new board 100% and I honestly do not believe that there will be any way that external influences will be able to sway the minds of the board.
Yes, there may well be opinions that are voices, not unlike the "opinions" of those who are so very quick to bag out the likes of Mr Denton. Seriously, what makes YOUR opinion any more valid than that of the hundreds that voted him into the role? I am not trying to be a smartarse ( generally comes pretty easy for me ;) ), but in all seriousness, there will always be a minority of people that disagree with ANY decision made - regardless of the benefits to the karter.
This forum is a great place to voice opinions, and as per the old adage "they are like arses...everyone has one", but I think that we have become rather vindictive in our inability to accept that. I do believe that there are people on here that have nothing better than to seek some form of vengeance against previous actions which in their opinion were wrong.
I CAN appreciate the fact that there have been many instances where controlled parts (Air boxes, mufflers) have been forced on us, and those decisions have been somewhat controversial - however it would be a brave, naïve fool who would stand up now and state that it has not been a good move. Yes it hurt, but it has also created a lot more parity !!
EVERY race format in the world is driven by PARITY !!
With the 20:20 vision of hindsight, we would have established a bullet proof formula back during the dying days of the McCulloch !! However, what seems to be missed in this brilliance is that KARTERS will do whatever it takes to win. This has resulted in rule change after rule change to chase the ever illusive "PARITY" and exactly why we are were we are now.
Now not that I want to appear critical of the current management, but seriously we cant even get a rule book that doesn't require a multitude of addendums before its released each year !!
So, all that being said, the new board HAS demonstrated that it has the experience and drive to put the project on hold and to suggest that they will be open to external influences is just scaremongering at best.
In Summary
I am all for a replacement engine
I am all for the new board to be in control of that process.
I am not in the slightest concerned re the conspiracy theories that are being discussed.
The vast majority of karters I have spoken with are more than happy that there will be a better option than the current cast port engines and shithouse parity !
BUT - Just MY opinion
RegardsDave
Dave Whilst agree with what you have said, its not the decision thats made but how it was done, were you are you aware of the airbox implentation and how that was done and the industry member who benefited from it and the relationship to the president at the time??? look at the clutch debarcle at what that costs the sport? thats what concerns me, not the actual decision but how its made is/was the real problems, and we ALL hope the new board will make better decisions and it ooks like the decision to suspend the new engine is a good first step. Your lack of concern regarding so called conspiracy theories worries me as it goves and has done so in the past, free rain for the governing body because they know they wont be challened on their decision, but with the new board there is a great hope that old habits will die off, but whilst I am positive for the new board as am happy they are ALL new faces no baggage, skills, the real success will be the make up of the various sub committees, we need NEW faces there as well, if we see the same baggage I feel governance may not be as succesful as it could be? but Time will tell on that one.
And thats my opinion also.
Yes Neville, I DO believe that the AKA Airbox has benefited everyone, One set of rules for multiple classes. No need to try different air boxes ( I had 3) , Tech inspections are simpler etc ?..... and yes, the importer/ manufacturer benefited - NO different to the Dunlop or MG tyre importer ? Was it open to tender ?
Lets not be naïve and think that this sport is run by volunteer importers ! The sport exists because there is money to be made as is every form of motorsport in Australia / the world.
The clubs put their delegates into those positions, so yes I do believe that Craig was "voted" in by hundreds of voices.
They may not have been your voice, but why is your opinion any more credible than the others? I agree that there needs to be transparency, certainly with votes and as I have said previously "in camera" has no place in this sport.
With absolute due respect, I am interested in knowing what your current involvement is with the sport. I know that there are heaps of people that have vested interests and great histories which validate a certain individuals stand on these issues.
I do think that one thing many clubs suffer from is executives not having experience, as generally people get pissed off with the membership being critical of decisions which in turn results in a rapid turnover and "green" karters appointed / voted.
I also think that is why the board will serve the karter better, because the positions are filled based on experience in their areas. How many clubs do you know where the treasurer's experience was limited to doing year 8 business principles or the president elected because he seems like a nice guy ? May have worked 20 years ago but in todays economic environment, the skills and experience of the exec become critical in managing each club / state / national body.
What I am not saying is that everything is perfect, or every decision that is being made is 100%. But I am very confident that the new board has much more at stake ( including personal, professional credibility). This by itself ( IMHO) vastly improves the chances that decisions, processes and ultimately the path karting takes WILL be for the betterment of the sport.
I love karting, have done so since 1981 when I was a sub-junior running class Australia with a fully port and polished KT100S @ 105Kg class weight. How far has the sport evolved in 31 years, how many "vested interests" have influenced the way we operate ?
Regards
Dave
Neville Scullion said:
David on your point about parts, are you honestly telling us that the introduction of a grey coloured air box with a sponge filter benefited anyone other than the importer and retailers?
You show a distinct lack of understanding of procedure if you believe Mr Denton was voted into the role by 100's of people. At best he could have been voted in by 6, however us plebs again have been kept in the dark and there is no official results of polling numbers, only the end result as the minutes lack detail and substance, another thing hopefully the new board can amend...... David Price said:
I am all for doing things "by the book"...100% no question.
I am also behind the new board 100% and I honestly do not believe that there will be any way that external influences will be able to sway the minds of the board.
Yes, there may well be opinions that are voices, not unlike the "opinions" of those who are so very quick to bag out the likes of Mr Denton. Seriously, what makes YOUR opinion any more valid than that of the hundreds that voted him into the role? I am not trying to be a smartarse ( generally comes pretty easy for me ;) ), but in all seriousness, there will always be a minority of people that disagree with ANY decision made - regardless of the benefits to the karter.
This forum is a great place to voice opinions, and as per the old adage "they are like arses...everyone has one", but I think that we have become rather vindictive in our inability to accept that. I do believe that there are people on here that have nothing better than to seek some form of vengeance against previous actions which in their opinion were wrong.
I CAN appreciate the fact that there have been many instances where controlled parts (Air boxes, mufflers) have been forced on us, and those decisions have been somewhat controversial - however it would be a brave, naïve fool who would stand up now and state that it has not been a good move. Yes it hurt, but it has also created a lot more parity !!
EVERY race format in the world is driven by PARITY !!
With the 20:20 vision of hindsight, we would have established a bullet proof formula back during the dying days of the McCulloch !! However, what seems to be missed in this brilliance is that KARTERS will do whatever it takes to win. This has resulted in rule change after rule change to chase the ever illusive "PARITY" and exactly why we are were we are now.
Now not that I want to appear critical of the current management, but seriously we cant even get a rule book that doesn't require a multitude of addendums before its released each year !!
So, all that being said, the new board HAS demonstrated that it has the experience and drive to put the project on hold and to suggest that they will be open to external influences is just scaremongering at best.
In Summary
I am all for a replacement engine
I am all for the new board to be in control of that process.
I am not in the slightest concerned re the conspiracy theories that are being discussed.
The vast majority of karters I have spoken with are more than happy that there will be a better option than the current cast port engines and shithouse parity !
BUT - Just MY opinion
RegardsDave
Dave we had one airbox, and all that needed to be done if the rule was to be changed was make the air filter mandatory. Buy a sponge filter, and insert it into the existing airbox, not everyone have to buy a whole new set up.
The 'vote'. Did your club discuss the nominations for the executive positions? did you take the clubs recommendations to the your SKC, and did your SKC then debate the best candidate being issuing a directive to your state delegate who they will vote for at the AGM?
Dave just for you information, I am the secretary and public officer of my club, I also look after the club membership, I hold CoC, Steward, OLT and scrutineer credentials. I have in the past been the clubs alternate delegate, and recently was appointed to the NSW track committee. I have served on various sports club committees/administration for nearly 40 years including president of a RL club for a number of years.
There is not a decision made by our Club that is not put to the member base to debate and vote upon. David Price said:
Yes Neville, I DO believe that the AKA Airbox has benefited everyone, One set of rules for multiple classes. No need to try different air boxes The clubs put their delegates into those positions, so yes I do believe that Craig was "voted" in by hundreds of voices.