Honda CR125 class

Submitted by Gmac72 on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 02:41
Following on from other thread:

So is there a proposed local supplier for these "spec" 125's or are we allowed to source them ourselves from the US now ?
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I believe that you can purchase/import them yourself now as you can do for most things now. The internet has shrunk the world to a 4 day wait for parts.

The intention and rules state that you must have 4 wheel brakes I think.

I think at this stage, anyone looking at importing engines for a class that isn't already up and running would be foolish. Perhaps Sam has the correct contacts in the states in which he could bring them in for people? Sounds like that is the case. As I said, I am in for the second half of the year!.


If you have an Arrow BMAX or Monaco M/max or indeed the Arrow X1 or Monaco equivelent that only have rear brakes, you can remove the standard master cylinder and replace it with the rh half of the twin (shifter) master cylinder and add a front brake kit. Any kart dealer can get these from DPE which only leaves the shifting lever, rod and rod ends. The rod ends and rod are also standard over the counter parts available through a dealer from DPE.

I will make a kit for anyone that would be interested in converting a standard type kart as above. It would consist of, Radiator,hoses,new steering upright set to accomodate the gear lever, the gear lever itself and a detailed parts list to go to a kart shop and purchase the following items.
-Front brake kit,
-rh side of the twin Master cylinder,
Bias lever and adjuster clevises,
-front wheel hubs,
-shift rod and rod ends

If you are to buy a standard kart (as mentioned above), unless it is only about $1000 you would be better off buying a new or near new shifter in the first place though.

Realisticly, this is a 8.5 grand class to buy new.
So is Rotax by the time you purchase a new rolling chassis, chain, rear sprockets, front sprocket, chain gaurd, jetting kit, tires and the engine package.

How much was one of those Hypermax karts. I heard around 10 grand and you couldn't sell it to a sprint karter if you wanted to at selling time. Still quite a few people got into them. (I'm not meaning that there is/was anything wrong with the hypermax, I'm just thinking out loud).

Around $11,000 for a complete unit. Shame they had been extended and reduced their resale ability for those that have bought them.

Safe,
Mate I got a bloke who paid around $500 for a 99 CR125 just before Xmas off Ebay. Earlier on he picked up a complete CR125 02 model for $2100. Both in excellent condition. Sold the roller which paid for front brakes and mounts etc quite easily. There is also the poor mans pumper carb option with one pump and a fuel check valve off a Honda Odesee/ FL250 which seems to work ok. I am led to believe KTM also make something similar for he Dakaar desert racers that have the pet cock much lower than the carb.

Then you have the alot of guys picking up ICC's complete ( pipe, carb, pumps, water pulley) for under $1500 these days and certain organisations in the US have found parity with the Spec honda. Agreed there is a few variations of what is Stock or Spec with those various organisations but I can't see why this can't be matched here.

Cook,
Wasn't really fair for a cross over class if one brand that cost that much has extended wheelbase etc. I'd asume these chassis wouldn't make the proposed control 125GB either. It would either be bolt a 125 and run oipen 125GB or see them banished to the good ole webmaster graveyard in the sky along with the 80's and long shafted oil clutch KT's. Probably best if this new 125 control class does get up it should never be offered National or State status or the current crop of 125 supers would most like join them also.

Leprechaun

Sat, 06/03/2010 - 15:43

Gents....and yes you as well Zavaglia ;D

I have been speaking with some of your fellow countrymen (Sam & Mike Wayne) about this. They both ran my gear at Miller in Utah last August and are coming back over again this year.

Truly it is the best bang for your buck. I ran / have run my own team & karts in this class in Road racing (long circuit) here in the states. We were getting a little over a year on bottom ends and 4 to 5 full weekends on a piston ! The reliability on these packages is incredible and the only seizure that i have seen on these, was a guy who jetted way toooo lean. Our stock honda grids over here are getting bigger and bigger...as long as you can keep the licensing sorted out and make it easy for some of the sprint guys to "cross over" the grids will follow.

The package over here in the states is packaged like this:

99 honda cr 125 engine spec shifter go kart motor Package .
This 99 CR125 6 speed transmission honda motor comes with hand fit/ Power valves plugged and matched to the exhaust port
Slip-fitted and trued CR125 Crank Rod checked for straightness and corrected if needed
Power valve actuator rod hole plugged
Kick starter plugged ready for your combination
All Stock electronics / cdi / ign box / coil included.
O-ring manifold & alum coil bracket is also included .
The package includes steel or alumium motor mount /
RLV R4 Pipe silencer & Mount kit & springs/
Keihin 38mm PWM OR PWK Air Striker Carburator /
Air filter & adjustable air filter mount /
Fuel pump fuel line & filter /
Drive sprocket /
J shifter arm /
Clutch & thottle cables

Everything you need built....

I can get these for less than the advertised rate of $3595 US...this is an average figure... plus obviously the shipping.

I'm working out prices at the minute with a vendor for just the motor kit un-built but with everything else included, all you have to do is to put it together...if you can bear with me for a few days i can get you a price on it all.

I want nothing out of this, except to see the kart counts flourish....oh and whenever i can afford to come over for someone to give me a drive and a beer ;D ;D ;D ;D

Kind Regards to all.

Incidentally if anyone is interested in coming over to Miller, Utah in August give me enough notice and i can sort out a package for you to rent.

Chris Parks

Mon, 08/03/2010 - 18:50

[quote author=The Ex Cook link=topic=823.msg6560#msg6560 date=1265922943]
Around $11,000 for a complete unit. Shame they had been extended and reduced their resale ability for those that have bought them.
[/quote]

You would buy something like this first....

http://www.ekartingnews.com./viewtopic.php?t=93117&sid=e143be265c01d6f86f1949200acf6740

Knock it down to 3500USD a bit over 4K AUD, Sam knows how to ship them cheap, 6 or 700 dollars in customs and buggerising around. It would be in the country for under $7000 dollars. I have a mate in the US who is right into shifters, I am sure he could scare a few up.

Im completely looking from the outside in on this one as havent done any research but seems like an excellent idea and im sure there are plenty of 80cc karts that would take this engine as well. With the 250's we have the inter's and then the nationals, so with the 125's we could have the GP style and the 'nationals' as such 125CR Category. In both cases far more cost effective and i hope would get more people on the grid.
As mentioned somewhere up a few doesnt need to be an actual class just race in the 125's and if the numbers work out that is the normal way to make people stand up and look. Looking forward to the reply from the US as i think this is a great concept.
Cameron

For those that wanted a figure and availability, complete "Stock Honda 125" brand new package.

1999 spec CR125 6 speed transmission honda motor with;
hand fit power valves plugged and matched to the exhaust port,
slip-fitted and trued CR125 Crank Rod checked for straightness and corrected if needed,
power valve actuator rod hole plugged,
kick starter hole plugged,
All Stock electronics / cdi / ign box / coil included,
Keihin 38mm PWK Carby
O-ring exhaust manifold & alum coil mount bracket,
steel or alumimium engine mount to suit sprint chassis,
RLV R4 Exhaust Pipe and silencer + exhaust mount kit & exhaust springs,
Air filter + adjustable air filter mount,
Round type Mikuki fuel pump + fuel line + filter,
Engine sprocket, Gear shift J arm,
Clutch & thottle cables,
21T, 22T, 23T rear 2 piece sprockets for 50mm axle + 428 chain,
+
Frieght, Australian GST and assembly ready to bolt onto shifter chassis
+
Brand new 2010 model Arrow X1 or GOLD Kart 125cc CIK shifter chassis (new chassis I have made equiries about)
+
Radiator and plumbing
+
Brand new tyres

COMPLETE - EVERYTHING BRAND NEW ready to race package for $10,400 Australian dollars.

* just any temp/tacho gauge of your choice + CAMS logbook + chain lube and petrol/oil.

So this is the figure for anyone to walk straight up and take a complete brand new package out of the showroom without any hassle of piecing it themselves. The running of this kart setup does not involve any black magic in engine tune up or maintenance. Just work on your driving and chassis setup and most of all have fun, reliable, consistant racing with a 6 speed gear stick in your hand!

Of course you may be able to make one for less with used/preloved chassis, engine or engine running gear.

AN ALL BRAND NEW package is coming soon.....hope to have it competing at Phillip Island Nationals in the 125GB class if other commitments don't get in my way (time wise).

Leprechaun

Tue, 09/03/2010 - 13:57

[quote author=Chris Parks link=topic=823.msg7001#msg7001 date=1268038225]



You would buy something like this first....

http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=93117&sid=e143be265c01d6f86f1949200acf6740

Knock it down to 3500USD a bit over 4K AUD, Sam knows how to ship them cheap, 6 or 700 dollars in customs and buggerising around. It would be in the country for under $7000 dollars. I have a mate in the US who is right into shifters, I am sure he could scare a few up.
[/quote]

Chris,
you could....except ......its not a Stock/Spec Honda and does not fit into the rule package over here. By the time you paid for shipping, packaging/crating, customs, then have the worry that you have bought a bucket of crap is it worth it ?

If you guys do go ahead with this format you WILL LOVE it. As Sam said their is no black magic in engine tune up or maintenance. It really is all driving and chassis setup and most of all have fun, reliable, consistant racing with a 6 speed gear stick in your hand! If you guys ever get over here you will see that there are ALWAYS several guys running up front in packs...its draft draft draft and kart set up that wins the day.

Enjoy guys

Rolf Greve

Tue, 09/03/2010 - 16:59

Nine posts in and we're modifying the class AGAIN.

How much drama have we got in the Rotax (crossover) class?

It works in the U.S. and it can work here.

Want fairings and wings? 125 gearbox.

Crap, let's not get started on tyres. (again)

Dalton,
I will be running my kart in CIK sprint plastics. If we are fortunate enough for many people to jump into the "Stock Honda" bandwagon like in the USA, then "Australian Stock Honda" rules could be justified to be drawn up. Until then it runs under the webmaster 125GB rules. This way there is no rule book changes or class additions required to trial out this concept for however long it takes for general acceptance. It doesn't hurt anyone running it but can only bolster more numbers into Australian webmastering. I'll bet you anything that it won't disappoint the drivers even if they can't keep up with the front running 125GB webmasters. If webmastering offers the "Best Bang for your Buck", then this kart will offer the "Best Bang for your Buck in webmastering".
My personal preference would be all CIK plastics, however I wouldn't be phased if Rotax Max nose cone rules were prefered instead, everything else plastics including the number plates for cost and simplicity.

Time will show it's potential on what a neat and basic entry level class this can be into Gearbox webmastering.
The fact is, the acceptance of this class in USA has the ICC engines being ditched [u]by the kart owners[/u] for this low maintence, low cost, high availability, reliable and "single make" controlled engine package...... everyone's going "Stock Honda". ;)

That's it Mike, go getem up the inside ;D
[img]http://www.samzavaglia.com/hosting/Miller09/mike%20inside.jpg[/img]

Now which way shall I make my move......?
[img]http://www.samzavaglia.com/hosting/Miller09/Sam%20125%20Stock.jpg[/img]

Dalton,
It is going to have to weigh 180kgs to comply with the 2010 125GB rules.
http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/a_general/RA09_webmastering_TechRegs_Q110.pdf
However, if you were to come in under weight at the scales, your only going to be disqualified from close to the rear of field anyway... :D
The main thing is you get out there and have fun. If your out to win in the 125GB class, you need an open class 125GB webmaster to be competitive. The cost and maintence into the "ducks nuts" version of 125GB really does add up well beyond what many people really think it may be.

Leprechaun

Wed, 10/03/2010 - 13:44

Dalton,

http://vimeo.com/groups/gslow/videos/6392171

Although its only 6 and a bit minutes long it shows:

1. Miller MotorSport's Park
2: Coming from the back...they started 20 plus deep right up to the front
3: A certain Australian having a good time on my Swiss Hutless...good on ya Drongo ;D
4: Just how evenly matched they all are.

Chris Parks

Wed, 10/03/2010 - 22:05

[quote author=Leprechaun link=topic=823.msg7008#msg7008 date=1268107035]


Chris,
you could....except ......its not a Stock/Spec Honda and does not fit into the rule package over here. By the time you paid for shipping, packaging/crating, customs, then have the worry that you have bought a bucket of crap is it worth it ?

[/quote]

Craig, it was only an indication of what is available, I think I made that point. If they are such a good simple thing no one could bugger one up to the extent that it would cost $5000 dollars to fix it. I might have failed maths but the numbers don't add up. I might get onto my mate and bring a few in, anyone wanna buy one? Non refundable deposit on order required. if it is such a good thing I won't have any trouble selling them. BTW I do agree that the class has the potential to be a good low cost class, but what comes first the karts or the karters? Do you say to a new starter I can show you how to build a kart, it will cost you this much and take this long but you can't race for the podium as a realistic expectation until we create a class. If you are going to get this off the ground do some realistic planning on how to do it including how you are going to hold the new starter's hand while he learns all about it. don't just say we will tell people about and get killed in the rush, sorry it won't happen. I wouldn't be so pessimistic if someone could demonstrate they have thought out the whole idea but as is usual in karting people who have a good idea never think it right through and do a business plan on how to make it all work. The proponent usually gets a good idea, puts it forward to his mates and then expects the whole thing to suddenly evolve with 50 karts on the grid in the first race. It can work but the promoters have to do some hard yards and make it work and that is the part I am doubtful about. Are you up to do this?

Cdan,
I am building one now with all brand new engine to the "Stock Honda" rules as used in the USA. My kart can/will be used at CAMS and AASA webmaster meetings under the 125GB class, both local and at Australian Championship level.

I am working with sprint kart shop(s) who sell CIK shifter chassis to import and make available locally the complete brand new 99 CR125 spec engines. There is already a bit of intrest with people like yourself who want to commit into this.

Initially you don't have to be like Chris Parks who must be racing for a trophy to be satisfied. You know who your racing against with the other "Stock Hondas" on the grid.
As the numbers progress (which I'm anticipating quite quickly) the local clubs can reconised the class within the webmaster 125GB class to award the all so important trophies. As it proves itself to be popular and reliable, a National catergory could then be identified and reconised by it's own rules and catergory simply by the numbers its bringing into the sport of webmastering.

So what is there to lose by giving it a go? You only got to lose a SH*T LOAD of good, cheap FUN!
The unlikely worst case senerio is you try it out, don't like it or the sport for whatever reason so you part it out your kart.
The chassis is a CIK shifter chassis, can be used in sprint or webmastering.
The engine is popular both local or in the USA. You will never have an issue selling it on ebay to the USA if it is in "Stock Honda" trim.
Otherwise someone else may purchase your kart "as is" to pickup where you left off.

Just like the "Sham Wow" ad....."i don't know, it sells itself"



jays busy racin

Fri, 19/03/2010 - 21:27

sammy

I like the idea of the "STOCK HONDA" 125 gb and i congradulate you on showing it off here in aus. But the question is do they have a stock 250 single class?or is it still all open? if they do have a stock 250 single engine available wouldn mind having a look at that too could just be another way to get more people onto the grid ( i say this because a NSW member came and had a chat with me on the weekend about what the big singles are really like).