Weight increase to 190 kegs..?

And a greater arrogance if CAMS lets it proceed.


SKA is a PROMOTER nothing more.

Nor is it a CAMS affiliated club.

Start acting like one.

Hi Phil,
We have an equal voice as members so please go ahead. :)

I am not trying to attack anyone personally; I just want to get back to the correct process that was put in place by the clubs and AMRC/CAMS for changes whatever they might be.

I applaud the NSW club for their new web site to include a section for interactive discussion on the relevant matters that affect the club such as the NSA and AMRC correspondence.

In today’s world where web content and social media has become a normal means of communication, it is time for the clubs to use this media for bilateral communication with it’s members.

It is unfortunate that more club members do not post their views on this forum but after talking to a few of my club members; they feel it is not worthwhile.

Misinformation can easily kill any progress when this happens; so I encourage all club members to at least view the postings on the forums like NSW and here so they have accurate information on our sport. :)

Regards Allan.

As a slow Stock Honda owner apparently I'm also a no one, although if the letter of the law is looked at Stock Honda is a sub-class of 125cc, ( excuse me if this is wrong), However I would just like to voice the opinion for the shorter, fitter, skinny drivers out there that I think 10kegs is way too much.
I can understand a taller, larger framed driver wanting a raise in the weights but as for the short or tall Fat Pr#%s, if you want to be more competitive at a national level say no to that second pie & cut out the fizzy stuff & perhaps train a little or look at Reedy who was probably always a little over when he won how many titles?? (Sorry Reedy but I know you can't say no to a pie).
My point is any body in the 60 to 70 kgs range is going to have so much lead on the thing that it has to begin to cross into a dangerous realm. IMO a fair balance of say 5kgs would be achievable. 20 to 30kgs of weights bolted to a kart is safe???

Just to correct you Rolfe, SKA is a CAMS affiliated Club and pays affiliation fees to CAMS each year. Check your CAMS Manual. Check the SKA website for the full details of the submission, note the weight increase does not include Stock Honda. It is interesting to note that in the Vic Superkart Club magazine of about 4 years ago it said that the weights would be investigated as an increase was needed.

Yeah thanks Graeme, Phil Sillcock sent me a full explanation in an e mail. Funny I thought he doesn't visit here.

Clearly CAMS has gone back on an agreement it made a few years ago.

But we all know the days of CAMS are probably numbered now anyway with other organizations offering alternatives.

Gee Rolfe that is news to CAMS, licence numbers are increasing and so are permit numbers for events.
Do you have a copy of the agreement that CAMS is supposed to have gone back on ?

Recon I might.

Owen, go to the CAMS home page and use the Club finder, just type in Superkarts Australia Pty Ltd and all the details will come up.

Hi Guys,
Well you are never too old to learn. ::)
I have been kindly sent a copy of the SKA document for CAMS affiliation and stand corrected – my apologies to the SKA! :-*

I also thought that the SKA was just a promoter but in fact they are a Club and that answers the question why they asked to have voting rights on the NSA.
As their members are CAMS licenced and they meet the required 15 member rule for the NSA voting rights; it is a reasonable request. :)

I would have hope that someone from the SKA would have explained this earlier on the forum to avoid misunderstanding, but it is my ignorance of the facts that is to blame for the wrong impression. :-[
I would encourage other entrants to view the following document/s for clarification.

http://www.superkartsaustralia.org/uploads/SKA_Facts_040310.pdf

Also worth a read of the SKA FAQ section for other answers to the questions you want to know.

Regards
Allan

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27669#msg27669 date=1429057134]
I also thought that the SKA was just a promoter but in fact they are a Club and that answers the question why they asked to have voting rights on the NSA.
As their members are CAMS licensed and they meet the required 15 member rule for the NSA voting rights; it is a reasonable request. :)
[/quote]
It's now a club that you are forced to join should you wish to race within the CAMS Australian Superkart Championship. That in itself is against CAMS very own NCR's for any CAMS Championship or Title.....you can check it out people. BTW, NO further regs or sporting regs can take precedence over the National Competition Rules (NCR's), says so in black and white within the CAMS Manual, so SKA membership is all smoke and mirrors......forcing CAMS Competitors who wish to compete at "Australian Superkart Championship" to become "SKA club members" and not just enforce a "CAMS Championship registration fee"

If SKA wanted to run a CAMS "Club" permit event and SKA took that permit out, then yes you would have to join SKA Club to race. Currently, SKA are invited to run at events that have a "CAMS Championship" permit and the competitor should only need to be a member of a CAMS affiliated racing club and appropriate CAMS license level.

Then again, you can spell this out to CAMS to who ever is prepared to take note and ask why AMRC approve SKA Sporting Regs to an "CAMS Australian Championship" that contravene the CAMS NCR's.

The whole thing is a joke, I thought rules were rules but it shows that there are different rules for different fools.

Peace Out, eat hamburgers, get fat so you can get serious about racing at Australian Championship level.



[url=http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/NCR/NC01-NCR-2014-1.pdf]http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/NCR/NC01-NCR-2014-1.pdf[/url]

"The National Competition Rules (NCR) are those specifically numbered in this section of this Manual and are
recognised as the main body of law"


15.COMPETITION
(i) A competition shall be of one of the following kinds:
(a) International:
a competition which is open to competitors and/or drivers holding an FIA international licence;
(b) National: a competition which:
• has been entered on a CAMS calendar;
• is open only to the holders of the relevant licence issued by or acceptable to CAMS;
• may be a CAMS Series or Championship or a round thereof or any other competition requiring a licence
above the minimum requirement to compete in a Club competition;
Note:
For the purposes of classifying events, including the setting of Permit Fees and the licensing of
competitors and officials, the subdivisions within ‘National’ competitions shall be the same as applied in
2008/2009, and as are set out in Appendix R (www.cams.com.au), viz:
•National
•National Other
•State
•Historic
or
"(c)Club:
a competition open only to the members of the organising club or of any explicitly named invited
club and who hold the relevant CAMS licence. A Club competition may not be nor form part of any CAMS
Series or Championship"

Hi Sam,
We are talking about a $50 fee to join the SKA and for that they run around and organise two events plus all the things that go with it. That is more than reasonable. :)

I checked out their Bank statement which they list on their site and it is here for your interest.

Someone has to do the organisation and while some clubs might be able to afford to run one race per year, not every club is a viable option. Not all Superkart drivers will attend a particular state if it too far away from them.

Regards
Allan.

Allan,
Ask them if they accept a $50 "Registration Fee" instead of a $50 Membership Fee?

There is more to it than you think. ;)

Hi Paul,
Currently, the SKA do not have voting rights on the NSA because the Clubs refused to allow the SKA to have these rights. I was also out spoken about this issue on the NSW site. :'(

But if the SKA club was accepted by the other clubs to be part of the NSA, they would have 1 vote for each of their 15 members as it currently stands amongst the clubs.

It is easy to see the SKA as the opposition to the clubs but the fact is they are not. :o
They have tried hard to work with the clubs and have gone as far as asking for members of each club to become directors on the board and steer the SKA in the best direction for the sport. Two clubs have agreed and two clubs have refrained.

The real problem is trying to get the four clubs to agree on any matter at any time as anyone on the NSA can attest to. :'(
There is a lot of misinformation out there about the SKA and I also believed it before I found out for myself. I now believe that the SKA are trying to do the best job they can for the sport of Gearbox Superkarting and give Gearbox Superkarting a recognised CAMS Australian Superkart Championship. CAMS will not recognised a single race Championship for an Australian Title.

I do not know of any club who will take the financial risk to organise and promote two separate race meetings for the Australian Superkart Championship without seeking assistance from people like the Shannon’s Series. :o

Of course, nobody is perfect and what some members expect to be done for the sport of Superkart is not always possible. For those drivers who have run in previous Championships under the SKA, they have found it well organised and promoted. :)

The Balance Sheet of the SKA is listed on their site and I have copied it to this topic for all to view. By the time the Championship is over there is only a small balance carried over for the next year. This is all the money that the SKA have to start the new year with and take the substantial risk when they say YES to the Shannon’s series each year. The rest is taken on faith that the Gearbox Superkarters will enter the Championship for that year.

I don’t know about you but that humbles me that some people like Phil Silcock would put up with all the criticism for what he gets out of the deal, which amounts to … ??
In fact Phil donates some of his own money for the pleasure he gets from the sport. This is a not a readily known fact.

In the accounts, you can see that the SKA have gained $8500 sponsorship for the Superkart Championship and if you take out this amount out from the event, it would run at a loss. Which club wants to take this burden on? :o

I not pointing the finger at anyone because I was also one of the critic too. My sincerely apologise to the SKA for any harm I might have caused them. :-*

Men of good will who put the sport first … I think Phil and the directors of the SKA qualify in my books. Please keep up the good works.
:) :-

Please.........ANYONE, correct me if I'm wrong.

CAMS wanted to appoint a company to take on the risk of running a Championship to "protect the clubs".

I was there, and I have the minutes.

Now that company has become a "Club"

Two financially strong clubs offered to take on the Championship in partnership but were refused. (on more than one occasion).

The "members" (of SKA) are actually members of existing clubs.
Who are given no choice if they want to run at the Aust Championship.

I have no doubt that SKA may have good intentions, but the sport does not need it (SKA) (no offence Phil)

TWO clubs can afford to run it, have sponsors and can return profits to the CLUBS.

But it won't happen so enjoy what you have...............................................


I know..........I'm delusional. :)

Hi Rolf,
To reference an extract from the CAMS letter below, the Victorian club did have a say in how the SKA was run but decide not to be involved. :(

Everyone in Superkart knows how hard to is to get all the clubs to agree on any one matter at any one time – that is just human nature at it’s best; but for the sport of Superkarting to remain healthy, you need consistent governance at a National Level. All the clubs recognised this and formed the Superkart Working Group but unfortunately, it did not work as well as they expected. :(

It also seems to me that the SKA have tried to get all the clubs involved as Directors on the SKA a number of times and two of the clubs have continually declined. :o
Currently, there are two Victorians on the Exec committee of the SKA independent of the Victorian Club as I understand the situation.

For 7 years, the SKA has successfully run the Australian Superkart Championship at the highest status level that our entrants can expect to achieve in the current motorsport environment. :)

The Shannons Series is a publically recognised series and has good Media representation within the motorsport world. This gives the sport of Superkarting an exposure to the public that I doubt could be achieve by any other means within the budget most Superkart Entrants could be reasonably expect to meet. :-\

It is a consistent National Gearbox Championship that the clubs can depend on each year without incurring any financial risk so why would the clubs want to go away from that system. ???

I do believe Superkarting needs an exposure level to the public if we are going to survive in the future and while the Shannon Series is not cheap, it is good value for money and probably the best that we should expect, given our numbers. :)


Quote from CAMS document date 4rd March, 2010 to all Superkart Club Members

“The Australian Motor Racing Commission (AMRC) recommended an entity be formed to run
the Australian Superkart Championship and National Superkart events while the SWG
continues to advise the AMRC on Superkart technical matters.
The company Superkarts Australia P/L was registered in January 2008 by Phil Silcock and
he became the founding director and shareholder.

After a meeting in Melbourne in early 2008, the company structure was discussed and
accepted as appropriate to conduct the Australian Superkart Championships. It was
suggested that the Clubs be shareholders and provide appointed Directors.

The SKA took over the Championship running funds formerly held by the SWG and
commenced running the Championships from April 2008. During this time the Adelaide
Superkart Club declined to be involved and did not provide a Director. This situation was
regretfully accepted by the SKA.

The Victorian Superkart Club (VSC) agreed involvement and nominated a Director. During
mid to late 2008, after several disagreements, the VSC provided written notice they were
withdrawing, however their nominated Director remains on the SKA Board.”


Regards
Allan

Allan,
does the saying "Cannon Fodder" mean anything to you?

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27686#msg27686 date=1429230709]
I do believe Superkarting needs an exposure level to the public if we are going to survive in the future and while the Shannon Series is not cheap, it is good value for money and probably the best that we should expect, given our numbers. :)
[/quote]
Numbers have declined since this model has been taken up, "good value for money" I doubt it, doesn't seem to be working for the Australian Superkarting Clubs and Membership and that's what's most important here, that's the purpose of SKA isn't it?......tell me how our sport is not split in more than one direction?

The complete story you have told has been sugar coated well to you, great for a new member pack but most people who read here have been around mate. ;)

[quote author=Ashley Zahl link=topic=2529.msg27687#msg27687 date=1429232348]
Allan,
does the saying "Cannon Fodder" mean anything to you?
[/quote]

OMG Ashley, sometimes you surprise me.......where is the LIKE button.
[img]http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/9c4/KRa/9c4KRaycE.jpeg[/img]

[quote author=PIL007 link=topic=2529.msg27689#msg27689 date=1429232990]
[quote author=PIL007 link=topic=2529.msg27675#msg27675 date=1429085534]
[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27669#msg27669 date=1429057134]


I also thought that the SKA was just a promoter but in fact they are a Club and that answers the question why they asked to have voting rights on the NSA.
As their members are CAMS licenced and they meet the required 15 member rule for the NSA voting rights; it is a reasonable request. :)



Regards
Allan

[/quote]

So if SKA have voting rights at NSA, their members get to vote on issues twice. Once for their club and once for SKA...? IS this right....?
[/quote]

Would anyone like to respond to my question...?
[/quote]
PIL the one sentence explanation is; I believe SKA tried but failed to get voting rights on NSA. Now they just go direct to AMRC to push their agenda, bypassing the NSA (Australian Superkarters) to try and run the sport their way for everyone else.

All this bullshit that the clubs can't agree, the Stock Honda class and the Stock Honda Starter motor all happened through the NSA with each club and members having their say. ;)

Hi Ashley,
I know that this subject have been discussed previously but we do need to inform the new members of the situation or they will have only one view. Besides, everyone needs a little humour in their life. :)

Hi Pil,
As I understand it, the answer would be Yes.
But the same goes for anyone who joins two clubs and votes on the same issue at both clubs, they would be giving their vote more leverage. Some people might like to try this and donote some much needed cash to the clubs. :)

Hi Sam, what is it exactly that you think the SKA is doing wrong and how would you change that if you were directing the sport? :)

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27694#msg27694 date=1429236887]
Hi Sam, what is it exactly that you think the SKA is doing wrong and how would you change that if you were directing the sport? :)
[/quote]

Allan, start reading from here and read all 6 pages.
[url=http://superkart-aus.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1767.15]http://superkart-aus.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1767.15[/url]

This was a CAMS Title event, the CAMS permit costs the same whether it is a State Title or National Title. All classes (Gearbox and Non-Gearbox) represented at place. Clubs take home the profits.
The winner, whether the National Championship is held over 1 round or 15 rounds, whatever is decided, will go home as the CAMS recognised "NATIONAL SUPERKART CHAMPION" for their respective class. NOTE: I said CAMS NATIONAL SUPERKART CHAMPION and not CAMS AUSTRALIAN SUPERKART CHAMPION.

Now, does it really matter if we don't race to be able to attend the CAMS AUSTRALIAN CHAMPIONS Dinner?

YES, the CAMS NATIONAL CHAMPIONS do get awarded their CAMS NATIONAL CHAMPION Trophy at the CAMS STATE CHAMPIONS Dinner, just not at the CAMS Australian Champions dinner.

So Allan, next your going to get all the excuses how it's not profitable and the clubs won't do it, well before you report back on that, talk to VSKC - Rolf/Rod or ASC - Ron, they have run them at Phillip Island and Mallala......now imagine if all us Gearbox Superkarters supported these events with the Non-gearbox Superkarters......

Now don't forget to read the 6 pages at this link!
[url=http://superkart-aus.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1767.15]http://superkart-aus.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1767.15[/url]

[img]http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab189/rgreve/2012nationalsPosters2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab189/rgreve/Victitlesposter.jpg[/img]
[img]http://superkart-aus.com/Forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1751.0;attach=1990;image[/img]

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27672#msg27672 date=1429069345]
Hi Sam,
We are talking about a $50 fee to join the SKA and for that they run around and organise two events plus all the things that go with it. That is more than reasonable. :)
[/quote]

[quote author=Sam Zavaglia link=topic=2529.msg27673#msg27673 date=1429072816]
Allan,
Ask them if they accept a $50 "Registration Fee" instead of a $50 Membership Fee?
[/quote]

Allan,
Did you get a sugar coated answer for this one?
Competitors pay $50 for a Championship Registration Fee but not to become a member of their SKA club or Pty Ltd, whatever it is ......private company or CAMS club or both?

Hi Sam,
Yes, I remember reading about that meeting in 2012 and I attended the AASA Tiltes at Wakefield Park in 2013 (Stock Honda) because of that event. :)
While there were a good number of entries at the Victorian State Titles, a lot of the interstate drivers did not attend. :(
This was a very successfully event for Victoria and SA with 20 Gearbox entries and 36 non-gearbox entries counting from the Natsoft results.

Compared to the SKA event in the same year 2012 there were the following:
At Phillip Island in 26/05/2012 you had 35 Gearbox karts attending and all states were represented.
At QRC in 11/08/2012 you had 33 Gearbox karts attending and all states were represented.

Sam, I am not the only one who thinks that the SKA are doing a good job of promoting the Australian Gearbox Superkart Championship; the numbers speak for themselves.
As far as getting new members into the Superkart clubs, that is not their brief. :)

It is the responsibility of every Superkart club member to marketing Superkarting to whoever they find is interested.
The clubs are just a membership of like-minded individuals who love doing the same thing, and if they want to have a viable sport they need to find enough like-minded individuals to keep it viable. :)

I believe that we need to have a representation in the motorsport arena so that Superkarting will be recognised by the public when they see one. That way, those who are interested, will seek out the local club and hopefully join this great sport which we all love so much. The Shannon’s Series gives us that representation and status amongst the other forms of motorsport.

I also believe firmly in the famous statement that Deng XiaoPing made and turned China around. “ it does not matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice”.

We really cannot afford to be divided within our sport as we do not have the luxury of excessive numbers to cater for a few lost members. We need to present a united front to any new members that walks into our sport and asks; what is it like to drive one these?

In regards to your question about being a member of the SKA – If the entrants of the SKA events do not like this condition, we can petition the SKA for a change and if that is done; you might just end up with what is currently happening within most clubs now ……

Regards
Allan

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27698#msg27698 date=1429246878]
I believe that we need to have a representation in the motorsport arena so that Superkarting will be recognised by the public when they see one. That way, those who are interested, will seek out the local club and hopefully join this great sport which we all love so much. The Shannon’s Series gives us that representation and status amongst the other forms of motorsport.
[/quote]
Hasn't worked.....been doing Shannon's Series since 2005.
How many karts you sold recently Allan? I've sold about 20x Stock Honda and 1x 250 Twin in the last 3 years.
People scared to invest in stuff that's not "off the shelf". We need to have Stock Honda and RotaxMax at Shannon's if you take your approach, not demonstrate these Mad Max, prototype, busted arse karts requiring technical assistance and "know now" when luring the average public walking around at Shannon's Nationals events.
All I hear is that you need wings and heavy min weights to attract new people into the sport......bullshit, maybe look nice but doesn't close the deal. Need something that "public" can walk in, purchase and have serviced all over the counter so they can go racing.......that's if your targeting "the public" as you put it.

Wouldn't it be nice if this turned into a discussion about whether the 125GB weights fundamentally do need to increase or not. If someone had some data showing a range of drivers weighed over a range of race meetings did not meet the weight requirement and only a minority are able to get close to the standard weight then I think this would be a no brainer....and dare I say it the SKA probably do have this data??

Whether the SKA do or don't do a good job or whether they should be doing running the nationals is another story, personally I don't think Superkarters can afford to infight and run several different national championships and then wonder why class numbers are low. Look at any other category in Australia at a national level within CAMS and it is not run by the local clubs, so I don't know what the fascination is with in within Superkarting for national events to be shared out to the clubs. It's great that that's the way it was done in the 1980/90's but in my opinion there's no need for it now. National categories sure as hell don't support local clubs and most of them don't even have local/state championships as such. We should be grateful for that.

Quote
“Hasn't worked.....been doing Shannon's Series since 2005.”
I have to agree to disagree with you Sam. I do believe it could be better for sure.
As most marketing people will tell you, 50% of it works, 50% does not.
Most times, they do not know which 50% worked as people do not always conform to theory.
However, Superkarting is still going and there are good numbers preregistered for the Championship this year already.

Quote
“How many karts you sold recently Allan? I've sold about 20x Stock Honda and 1x 250 Twin in the last 3 years. “
Is this a, mines bigger than yours competition? You are probably smiling about now :o

Quote
“People scared to invest in stuff that's not "off the shelf". “
I understand that and I have pressed for the same thing in the National Class.

Quote
“We need to have Stock Honda and RotaxMax at Shannon's if you take your approach.”
The Stock Hondas can be at the Championship this year but we still need to get CAMS onside.
I would also love to see the non-gearbox involved with the Shannons Series –I am sure there are others people who want the same thing too. :)

Quote
“not demonstrate these Mad Max, prototype, busted arse karts requiring technical assistance and "know now" when luring the average public walking around at Shannon's Nationals events.”
No comment but I like the use of the word luring. Have you thought of writing a book on Australian Superkarting? I think it would be a good read. :)

Quote
“All I hear is that you need wings and heavy min weights to attract new people into the sport......bullshit, maybe look nice but doesn't close the deal.”
If the club members vote on a change and it is carried, then the members have spoken! That is the way it should be as each member has an equal voice if they take the time to vote. I would love to see web-conferencing instigated for those that do not attend the club meetings personally or even voting by mail on issue that affect their class. :)

Quote
“Need something that "public" can walk in, purchase and have serviced all over the counter so they can go racing.......that's if your targeting "the public" as you put it.”
Superkarting caters for all types of members, some do not like to play, and others do. Who is to say that they shouldn’t or should.
You, yourself are both from what I have seen over the years and probably lean more to the player side.
For those who do not want to play, I would agree it is a good option to have an off-the-shelf product and can only help to appeal to this type of person.
I have also pressed this same idea for the National Class on the NSW forum.
:)

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27706#msg27706 date=1429252154]
Quote
“How many karts you sold recently Allan? I've sold about 20x Stock Honda and 1x 250 Twin in the last 3 years. “
Is this a, mines bigger than yours competition? You are probably smiling about now :o
[/quote]
Definitely NOT, just that since I have sold/brokered so many Superkarts recently, I know what and why the people are buying.
Remember I sold your Stock Honda package twice, once to you and once for you. ;)

[quote author=GtG001 link=topic=2529.msg27706#msg27706 date=1429252154]
Quote
“We need to have Stock Honda and RotaxMax at Shannon's if you take your approach.”
The Stock Hondas can be at the Championship this year but we still need to get CAMS onside.
I would also love to see the non-gearbox involved with the Shannons Series –I am sure there are others people who want the same thing too. :)
[/quote]
Allan,
I got 4 or 5 Stock Hondas to Shannon's Nationals Event and I personally sponsored their trophies.
It directly helped the SKA bottom line, they had zero expense but 4 or 5 entries at "full price" that SKA would not have not normally had.
Two SKA Directors then expressed their negative opinions of Stock Honda karts racing as 125GB at "their" meeting......now they wish they were back? What's a matter SKA.....numbers now too low?
Those karts were 100% legally entitled to enter and race in the 125GB class which they did.

So where's their apology to the Stock Honda group? Such shameless people!

Hi Mike,
Sounds like you are back in SA again. Welcome home :)

I am sure the club will be happy to see your face out at the meetings again. :D
Ben McNamara also runs a Stock Honda in the club and has been circulating in the 1:16's at the last meeting so he should keep you honest.
Here is a link to his last meeting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWXgB9dPd94

Dalton holds the record at 1:15:50 if I remember correctly so that is the target to you need to beat :) See you out there. :)

Regards
Allan Litten

That's not Mike Wayne...That's CAPTAIN RISKY! KICKITNRIPIT ;D
Captain drives a STONDA 8)

Cheers Alan and see you out there.

It's now official.
125 Gearbox is now set at 190 kegs.
The bulletin has been released by cams effective May 11.

If this is old news sorry, carry on and have another can.

;D